Can you use Fire-Support to forestall the 2 wounds from Emergency Stims indefinitely so long as that unit is issued a command each round? Once you flip the order token face-down, that means that unit doesn't get to activate and the trigger for taking the wounds off of Estims is not met that round correct?

Correct. It’s going to be difficult to get the token on them every round (you’ll want to use your commander’s 1-pip eventually), but that is how it works.

On 8/15/2019 at 4:07 AM, nashjaee said:

Correct. It’s going to be difficult to get the token on them every round (you’ll want to use your commander’s 1-pip eventually), but that is how it works.

From the rules reference guide.

To use the fire support keyword, a unit must have a faceup order token. After using the fire support keyword, a unit must flip that order token facedown. That unit is considered to have activated and cannot be activated during that round.

So can I check if you have an official ruling to back up your conclusion, as the above would seem to me that they ended their activation as a result of their fire support.

6 hours ago, syrath said:

From the rules reference guide.

To use the fire support keyword, a unit must have a faceup order token. After using the fire support keyword, a unit must flip that order token facedown. That unit is considered to have activated and cannot be activated during that round.

So can I check if you have an official ruling to back up your conclusion, as the above would seem to me that they ended their activation as a result of their fire support.

They didn't end their activation because they never went through the steps of the activation to reach that step, you just flip their order token and they are considered to have activated.

13 hours ago, syrath said:

From the rules reference guide.

To use the fire support keyword, a unit must have a faceup order token. After using the fire support keyword, a unit must flip that order token facedown. That unit is considered to have activated and cannot be activated during that round.

So can I check if you have an official ruling to back up your conclusion, as the above would seem to me that they ended their activation as a result of their fire support.

Yeah, @Lemmiwinks86 got it exactly. You never went through the steps of an activation and therefore never hit an “after activation” window. The significance of the part you quoted is that it prevents that unit from activating later in the round. You have to choose between Fire Support or a normal activation.

2 hours ago, nashjaee said:

Yeah, @Lemmiwinks86 got it exactly. You never went through the steps of an activation and therefore never hit an “after activation” window. The significance of the part you quoted is that it prevents that unit from activating later in the round. You have to choose between Fire Support or a normal activation.

So that's "No" to my question. You could be considered to have ended your activation , as it definitely states you are, and I quote "Considered to be activated" , and as such your activation could be considered to have ended. It's an important enough distinction to be worth at least a rules question on it.

" To use the fire support keyword, a unit must have a faceup order token. After using the fire support keyword, a unit must flip that order token facedown. That unit is considered to have activated and cannot be activated during that round"

from the RRG 1.5 .

It's considered to have activated, if it is considered to have activated then it also ends it's activation at the point the unit turns the token upside down, at which point IMO emergency Stims end effect kicks in.

8 minutes ago, syrath said:

So that's "No" to my question.

Right, sorry I didn’t directly answer your question. We don’t have an official ruling on this one. I don’t think the question has been submitted as far as I recall. But I also think it’s clear enough on its own.

9 minutes ago, syrath said:

It's considered to have activated, if it is considered to have activated then it also ends it's activation at the point the unit turns the token upside down, at which point IMO emergency Stims end effect kicks in.

I think you’re conflating a couple things here. The unit is just receiving the “activated” label, if you will. It did not formally activate and go through all the steps. It’s like receiving an honorary degree: you didn’t go through the formal process, but you earned the label a different way.

Stims wouldn’t trigger because you never reached a window for it to do so. You are correct that you are “considered to be activated”, but you never went through any “after activation” windows where stims would have triggered.

9 minutes ago, nashjaee said:

Right, sorry I didn’t directly answer your question. We don’t have an official ruling on this one. I don’t think the question has been submitted as far as I recall. But I also think it’s clear enough on its own.

I think you’re conflating a couple things here. The unit is just receiving the “activated” label, if you will. It did not formally activate and go through all the steps. It’s like receiving an honorary degree: you didn’t go through the formal process, but you earned the label a different way.

Stims wouldn’t trigger because you never reached a window for it to do so. You are correct that you are “considered to be activated”, but you never went through any “after activation” windows where stims would have triggered.

Trigger at the end of your next activation

You are considered to be activated. End of story

As for your ascertation about it being used to prevent you activating again take a close look at the syntax of the rules line I quoted.

That unit is considered to have activated AND cannot be activated during that round

it is clear they make that as a separate distinction from the initial part where they say it is considered to have activated.

Also let's also take a common sense a approach. Do you really think that this wording is used so that you can indefinitely keep stims going round to round . Does that any way make any sense. The wording of the rules are clear to me. Also if you take a close look at the activation rules there is no "end activation" step mentioned, the last thing it asks you to do is turn your command token face down. Guess what so does fire support ask you to go through that step.

RRG -end step of activating units

After a player activates a unit, that player places its order token facedown (rank side down) on the battlefield near the unit leader.

3 minutes ago, syrath said:

You are considered to be activated. End of story

Correct, that is the end of the story. You are considered activated. You did not actually go through the process of activating and did not hit an “after” window.

4 minutes ago, syrath said:

Also let's also take a common sense a approach. Do you really think that this wording is used so that you can indefinitely keep stims going round to round .

Indeed I have used some common sense in my first response. This is also not the first time this question has come up and I do my best to dissuade the calls that this tactic is OP in any way. It’s going to be rather difficult to get that order token on this unit turn-after-turn. Eventually you will need to use a character’s 1-pip, or out orders on something else, or your commander may have moved out of range since that unit is not going to be moving at all, etc. You can also outright defeat the unit by continuing to shoot at it like any other.

I've submitted the question earlier, I'm fairly sure I know what the response will be.

On 8/26/2019 at 2:12 AM, syrath said:

I've submitted the question earlier, I'm fairly sure I know what the response will be.

Any chance you’ve received a response? It’s likely going to be relevant for other interactions as well.

so this question actually came up in the live stream with clones, set for it was with suppression, where a unit would panic if it had to many suppression on it. they said that since the unit never activates (i.e. go through its actions) and use it as fire support only then that unit wouldn't panic at all and just sit there, this would apply to anything that would trigger during its activation including stims (and if you have a way to make a unit recover with out it activating then this card can be used multiple times)

Saying it doesn't panic isn't the same as saying when that emergency stigma doesn't trigger they have two completely different triggers.

Panic is a factor that is decided at the rally step. The unit never goes through the rally step at any point irrespective of how you view the next wording. This much is agreed upon. I don't think I've seen anyone disputing this yet as unintuitive as it may seem. Intuition also leads you to make the jump that if it never activates it never ends it's activation. The wording of the fire support keyword never states that it activates, but it does state that the unit is considered to have activated. This wording COULD be taken as the unit having finished its activation, which is why I asked originally if the info came from a ruling from FFG.

I can see an argument for both. I asked the question on the FFG rules submission page, and to date I have not had an answer.

I'll be curious to see what the ruling is on this, as a similar issue came up on Friday with Bossk's Lying in Wait card. We played it as if it counted, and it didn't really end up mattering, but it would be good to know for future reference.