Been wanting to get into the game, And have always been a fan of the CIS. And was waiting till they came out to jump in. Ive been following the game since launch, and have watched my friends play it many times, That said, I'm not a rules aficionado and would like to know how this effect will work.

AI:Attack (Unless you have a faceup order token, your first action must be an attack, if able.)

I was wondering, Would this get by having to spend your first action removing suppression tokens. Or the panic rule? Cause If this effect has no positives, I fear that the battle droids with there White defense dice, no surges, White attack dice both ranged and melee. and with point costs just slightly under other units with only 2 extra guys per squad, they are just not feasible units. Like even the guys at my local scene are hating on them.

33 minutes ago, Petforces said:

Been wanting to get into the game, And have always been a fan of the CIS. And was waiting till they came out to jump  in. Ive been following the game since launch, and have watched my friends play it many times, That said, I'm not a rules aficionado and would like to know how this effect will work.

AI:Attack (Unless you have a faceup order token, your first action must be an atta  ck, if able.)

I was wondering, Would this get by having to spend your first action removing suppression tokens. Or the panic rule? Cause If this effect has no positives, I fear that the battle droids with there White defense dice, no surges, White attack dice both ranged and melee. and with point costs just slightly under other units with only 2 extra guys per squad, they are just not feasible unit  s. Like even the guys at my local scene are hating on them.

so as for suppression tokens that is done during the rally step, its not a action unless you rally, the panic rule over rule this as it forces you to the closes edge.
as for my opinion if they are worth it, well they can be they are cheaper and throw more dice when compare to the other corps units (yes its white for everything) but they are ment for a swarm mentality

50 minutes ago, azeronbloodmoone said:

so as for suppression tokens that is done during the rally step, its not a action unless you rally, the panic rule over rule this as it forces you to the closes edge.
as for my opinion if they are worth it, well they can be they are cheaper and throw more dice when compare to the other corps units (yes its white for everything) but they are ment for a swarm mentality

But AI attack, also forces an attack, so which forced action would take effect?

White attack dice without surge have a 25% chance to hit, Black attack dice without surge have a 50% chance to hit. Battle droids are 36 points for 6 guys. Rebel veterans are 48 points for 4 guys, with gaining a dodge token, to negate a hit, every time they are given and order. Meaning 1 of the droid hits will always be negated. With 6 guys the droids hit 1.5 times. which 1 of those attacks is negated. meaning out of 6 shots its a 50/50 if even 1 of the 6 lands. then the rebels have a 2/6 dodge chance. The rebels have 4 units that will hit 2 times. with droids only having a 1/6 chance to dodge. Lets say for the sake of easy math, we remove the 1/6 and 2/6 dodge chances, (this benefits the droids more cause the rebels had a higher chance) Lets give the droids another benefit and say they shoot first. 6 droids shoot. 50/50 if it hits. Lets say it does. 3 rebels left. 3 rebels shoot, 1.5 hits so 2 droids go down. The droids now have 1 hit per turn, that is negated by the dodge of the veterans. so they will not lands hits anymore unless, they go first, and even then most the time multiple squads shoot at each other, so the effect will still be applied. And the droids chances just keep going down more and more after every other droid is lost. the worst case scenario with ONE rebel is a 60%. vs the droid 25% result. So even with every factor, going to the droids favor, The will get slaughtered by a troop of rebel veterans. that are only a WHOPPING 12 points more expensive. And with normal rebels its the same results, cause they gain dodge through nibble. with only a 50% chance with 1 guy left. But it will never get that far. For 25 points you can get X-6 trooper, that legit puts out the damage output of a full 6 squad battle droid unit. You were also saying they are swarm, but for only 8-16 less points. and a hard cap of 6 troop choices, can they really swarm that much? Also droids have the negative of AI attack, on top of all that weaknesses, Its why i'm wondering if there is ANY benefit to AI attack?

DLDR Is there ANY benefit to AI Attack?

AI: Attack is meant to be a drawback, it’s not meant to be a benefit. You have to issue them a faceup order token to play around it.

Now luckily, Droid Troopers also has coordinate: droid trooper. With only one order token assigned to a droid trooper, you can potentially issue an order to all your droid trooper. It’s a very powerful hability.

As far as combat efficiency, I compare them to z6 rebel trooper, both doesn’t surge in attack. A droid squad with heavy weapon and one more droid cost 60 pts; a rebel trooper squad with z6 cost 62. Offensively speaking, the droid throw 7white/3black, the trooper 6white/4black. Difference is each droid killed remove 1white, each trooper killed remove 1black. Defensively speaking, while the droid doesn’t surge, they have 8 health vs 5 for the troopers. Having poor defense and counting more on number, the droids are good versus pierce units and low dicepool attacker (looking at you snipers). They will also be good to contest objective.

Panic happens during the rally step before any actions are taken. So when you activate your unit you rally them, by rolling a white die for each suppression they have. Then you check their remaining suppression, if the suppression is double their courage value they panic.

This all happens before you ever take actions with your B1's. If you get past the rally step, then your first action must be an attack, if you are able.

AI is the reason the units are so cheap. And with Coordinate, it should be quite easy to have orders on all of them every turn so that AI never triggers (you’ll need an HQ Uplink on 1 unit for the turn you use Grievous’ 1-pip).

When you give them a heavy weapon, their points efficiency on offense is pretty close to Rebel troopers (.055 for B1s, .056 for Rebels). And they are immune to being suppressed, so they never lose actions (they can still panic, though). Just keep them behind heavy cover to keep casualties to a minimum. Even when they do take damage, they lose 1 white die each time rather than black like Rebel troopers.

Give Grievous the Aggressive Tactics upgrade and you’ll have 4 surge tokens each round to boost their efficiency even more!

CIS is going to be a pretty strong faction, I reckon.

17 hours ago, Petforces said:

But AI attack, also forces an attack, so which forced action would take effect?

if a unit is panic it can't take other actions, so it will be force to flee. the AI attack activates after the rally step, the check for panic happens during if the unit panics if it fails the panic check it over rides everything that unit can do besides the forced movement.

14 hours ago, nashjaee said:

AI is the reason the units are so cheap. And with Coordinate, it should be quite easy to have orders on all of them every turn so that AI never triggers (you’ll need an HQ Uplink on 1 unit for the turn you use Grievous’ 1-pip).

When you give them a heavy weapon, their points efficiency on offense is pretty close to Rebel troopers (.055 for B1s, .056 for Rebels). And they are immune to being suppressed, so they never lose actions (they can still panic, though). Just keep them behind heavy cover to keep casualties to a minimum. Even when they do take damage, they lose 1 white die each time rather than black like Rebel troopers.

Give Grievous the Aggressive Tactics upgrade and you’ll have 4 surge tokens each round to boost their efficiency even more!

CIS is going to be a pretty strong faction, I reckon.

I know the Droidekas are immune to suppression cause they don't have courage. But Battle droids have a courage of 1 unless I missed something?

Also thanks for all the replies guys, Ill bring some of this up to the group I hang with. Atleast there is debate to whether they are bad or not. Which means it can't all be that bad! So I look forward to them even more now.

6 minutes ago, Petforces said:

I know the Droidekas are immune to suppression cause they don't have courage. But Battle droids have a courage of 1 unless I missed something?

Also thanks for all the replies guys, Ill bring some of this up to the group I hang with. Atleast there is debate to whether they are bad or not. Which means it can't all be that bad! So I look forward to them even more now.

In the FFG Live game, they said they do have Courage, but do not become suppressed. They will panic, though, which they would need a courage value for. I'm sure the rules update will clarify all of this in due time.

1 hour ago, manoftomorrow010 said:

In the FFG Live game, they said they do have Courage, but do not become suppressed. They will panic, though, which they would need a courage value for. I'm sure the rules update will clarify all of this in due time.

Thank you for your reply, Droids do seem better than I thought cause of stuff we didn't know yet.

Question real quick.

Trained in Your Jedi Arts (1 pip)
General Grievous
General Grievous gains Disengage and 1 dodge token. At the end of his activation he may perform an attack against each enemy unit at range 1 using the following weapon: Melee/Range 1: 1R 2b 1W Suppressive,  Versatile.

Grievous's pistol armament: Melee - Range 2 : 2 Black 2 White. Critical 1, Pierce 1, Versatile. (12 points).

Versatile means the weapon can be added to a melee dice pool, or can be used to shoot at a target at range, while you are engaged with another unit in melee.

If I were to use That command card. Could I during the Disengage extra attack at the end, use the pistol with it as well since it has Versatile?

7 hours ago, Petforces said:

If  I  were to use That command card. Could I during the Disengage extra attack at the end, use the pistol with it as well s  ince it has Vers  atil  e? 

No, the attacks from the command card only use the weapon on the card.

Quote

50 minutes ago, nashjaee said:

No, the attacks from the command card only use the weapon on the card.

Just curious as to exactly why, Because Grievous has Arsenal 2, which means he can use up to 2 weapons during an attack. The command card says perform an attack with X weapon. Versatile states you can add the dice to your dice pool when making an attack which his gun has.

Edit, gonna ask as a new question so it does not get buried in here.

16 minutes ago, Petforces said:

Just curious as to exactly why, Because Grievous has Arsenal 2, which means he can use up to 2 weapons during an attack. The command card says perform an attack with X weapon. Versatile states you can add the dice to your dice pool when making an attack which his gun has.

True. Arsenal states that you can use X weapons during an attack. It doesn't say attack action.

If the command card doesn't say that you can ONLY use that weapon, Arsenal should trigger and you can use your blaster or one lightsaber too.

That would be insane damage. I don't think it was intended to be that way. XD

1 hour ago, nashjaee said:

No, the attacks from the command card only use the weapon on the card.

he does not have to use the weapon on the command card only because it is on the command card, but because it is after his activation and the card states he makes attacks using the following weapon .

25 minutes ago, Petforces said:

Just curious as to exactly why, Because Grievous has Arsenal 2, which means he can use up to 2 weapons during an attack. The command card says perform an attack with X weapon. Versatile states you can add the dice to your dice pool when making an attack which his gun has.

Edit, gonna ask as a new question so it does not get buried in here.

The attacks granted by Trained in Your Jedi Arts is after his activation, as opposed to Boba Fett who gains a specific weapon by his command cards. That is the main difference.

13 minutes ago, Staelwulf said:

True. Arsenal states that you can use X weapons during an attack. It doesn't say attack action.

If the command card doesn't say that you can ONLY use that weapon, Arsenal should trigger in that case.

During the FFG Live stream, Alex uses this card and you can see how it works (the 1 hour 45 minute mark is about where Grievous begins his activation). Alex makes attacks during Grievous's activation using Arsenal 2 to split his dice pools.

Then , after the activation, he makes multiple attacks using the command card weapon only .

EDIT: Arsenal may apply, but if it did, I can't imagine Alex wouldn't have used it during those attacks after the activation granted by the command card. But, he could've just misplayed or been winging it. We will know for sure when these minis actually come out lol

5 hours ago, manoftomorrow010 said:

he does   not have to use the weapon on the command card only because it is on the command card, but because it is after his activ  ation and the card states he makes attacks using the following weap  o  n . 

It’s technically still during the activation, but that’s usually not important anyway (“at the end” is not the same as “after”). It’s relevant for Leia and Veers, though. If they’re engaged and use their activation to withdraw, they can’t use their 1-pip attacks.

5 hours ago, Petforces said:

Just curious as to exactly why, Because Grievous has Arsenal 2, which means he can use up to 2 weapons during an attack. The command card says perform an attack with X weapon. Versatile states you can add the dice to your dice pool when making an attack which his gun has.

Edit, gonna ask as a new question so it does not get buried in here.

We know the intent is to not add other weapons because that’s how Alex played it on the livestream.

4 minutes ago, manoftomorrow010 said:

During  the FFG Live stream, Alex uses this card and you can see how it  works (the 1 hour 45 minute mark is about where Grievous begins his activation). Alex makes attacks during Grievous's activation using Arsenal 2 to split his dice pools.   

Then , after the activation, he makes multiple  attacks using the command card weapon  only .  

Just because he didn't do it, doesn't mean that it is not possible. They had a few misplays during that match, although not many. So it is possible that he just forgot to do it.

Like I said: I don't think it is intended to be that way. But the rules we have so far favor petforce's argument.

Regarding the first "after activation" part in your answer: There is no rule that limits Arsenal to your activation only. If you use Palpatine's "pulling the strings" on Boba he can use both of his standard weapons, too.

7 minutes ago, Staelwulf said:

Just because he didn't do it, doesn't mean that it is not possible. They had a few misplays during that match, although not many. So it is possible that he just forgot to do it.

Like I said: I don't think it is intended to be that way. But the rules we have so far favor petforce's argument.

Regarding the first "after activation" part in your answer: There is no rule that limits Arsenal to your activation only. If you use Palpatine's "pulling the strings" on Boba he can use both of his standard weapons, too.

True, re: Boba.

Luke and Alex may have just been playing with the intent of the rule, but a lot of these rules interactions with new keywords like Versatile, etc., we just won't know definitively until the RRG is updated when Clone Wars releases lol

On 7/16/2019 at 5:10 AM, Red Castle said:

AI: Attack is meant to be a drawback, it’s not meant to be a benefit. You have to issue them a faceup order token to play around it.

Now luckily, Droid Troopers also has coordinate: droid trooper. With only one order token assigned to a droid trooper, you can potentially issue an order to all your droid trooper. It’s a very powerful hability.

As far as combat efficiency, I compare them to z6 rebel trooper, both doesn’t surge in attack. A droid squad with heavy weapon and one more droid cost 60 pts; a rebel trooper squad with z6 cost 62. Offensively speaking, the droid throw 7white/3black, the trooper 6white/4black. Difference is each droid killed remove 1white, each trooper killed remove 1black. Defensively speaking, while the droid doesn’t surge, they have 8 health vs 5 for the troopers. Having poor defense and counting more on number, the droids are good versus pierce units and low dicepool attacker (looking at you snipers). They will also be good to contest objective.

Yes, I do see them as a counter to snipers. They may help with sniper saturation and may also increase people wanting to have ion in their lists. I also think people comparing CIS to Rebels and Empire at this point is ridiculous we have only the starter box contents available for CIS and much more than that for Rebels and Empire. Give it some time people

6 hours ago, TheHoosh said:

Yes, I do see them as a counter to snipers. They may help with sniper saturation and may also increase people wanting to have ion in their lists. I also think people comparing CIS to Rebels and Empire at this point is ridiculous we have only the starter box contents available for CIS and much more than that for Rebels and Empire. Give it some time people

While I agree it is somewhat unfair to compare. In the end, since all we have is the starter set, if we want to play in tournaments and strong competitive games. We need them to be atleast close to comparable out of the box. Lots of games when the release a new faction, they release on par with the current factions. So seeing the droids be not as good out of the box, is worrying. And if your thinking they will release better stuff, then why even release this stuff in the first place being so low it has to be replaced as soon as the next thing comes out. Power creep is one thing, but a forced replace cause of it is another. I will say though that after hearing people talk about them, and the fact there is still unknown information released such as they dont suffer suppression, They might not be so bad after all.

17 hours ago, Petforces said:

While I agree it is somewhat unfair to compare. In the end, since all we have is the starter set, if we want to play in tournaments and strong competitive games. We need them to be atleast close to comparable out of the box. Lots of games when the release a new faction, they release on par with the current factions. So seeing the droids be not as good out of the box, is worrying. And if your thinking they will release better stuff, then why even release this stuff in the first place being so low it has to be replaced as soon as the next thing comes out. Power creep is one thing, but a forced replace cause of it is another. I will say though that after hearing people talk about them, and the fact there is still unknown information released such as they dont suffer suppression, They might not be so bad after all.

Typically in my experience those games do an utterly massive release for the new faction, roughly on par with what the new factions might have in 6 months. They also don't tend to have regular, monthly releases, nor tend to release more than one new faction at a given time. They aren't going to have options for most of the force org chart for quite a few months (no Special forces, no Heavy, no Operatives).