First, this is not meant to be a spoiler or about the stats of the corrupt weapons. It is meant more as an open discussion on the philosophical aspects of them and how that can relate to home games that cross pollinate with other campaign settings.

Asahina Yajinden is whispered to have made four corrupt swords with an unfinished fifth one.
Jonetsu (Passion, confirmed to exist in Courts of Stone) - Crane
Yashin (Ambition, unconfirmed) - Scorpion
Handan (Judgement, unconfirmed) - Crab
Fukushu (Revenge, unconfirmed) - Lion
Unfinished 5th blade (Treachery, confirmed to be incomplete and in Crane vaults in CoS)

With Seven Great Clans (or 6 great clans and the Imperial Family during the time the four were complete) and Yajinden's attempt to corrupt the clan Champions, it makes me think of Thassilonian Sin Magic from Pathfinder's setting. Since each of the blades is meant to play on the weaknesses of each of the clans, I can very much see these blades being analogous to the Alara'hai or Sin Swords of Golarion. Passion is easily connected to Lust. The others are a little harder and I would like to hear other perspectives. I can see Ambition being either Gluttony or Greed. Judgement and Revenge are close enough that I can see overlap, but I would connect Judgment to Envy and Revenge to Wrath. That leave three sins and three clans unassigned. I would suspect that Sloth could be connected to either Unicorn, Dragon or Imperial. Pride seems to make sense with Dragon, or Phoenix, and Gluttony could be Dragon or Imperial. With Mantis now a significant factor, I can see Gluttony associated with them.

Anyone else have a different perspective?

Fristly, a note: The following is predicated on the idea that we are talking about the 'Christian' seven mortal sins rather than the three sins as defined in Rokugan.

Ambition links to Greed, I think, since it's about wanting more, rather than overindulging.

I would definitely say that Sloth is the Dragon sin. There is the stereotype of them sitting on the fence for as long as possible; Hitomi stood and watched until the last minute in the original Second Day of Thunder.

Pride, on the other hand, is a Phoenix thing. The Isawa link is obvious - they think they're the best because they invented how to be a Shugenja. The Asako, when you think about it, show Pride too, in their unequalled understanding of the Path of Man. And finally, the Shiba are often seen as quite humble in personality, but if you ever suggested that their Kami was somehow lesser for bending the knee, you would get somewhat of a lecture.

33 minutes ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

I would definitely say that Sloth is the Dragon sin. There is the stereotype of them sitting on the fence for as long as possible; Hitomi stood and watched until the last minute in the original Second Day of Thunder.

Pride, on the other hand, is a Phoenix thing. The Isawa link is obvious - they think they're the best because they invented how to be a Shugenja. The Asako, when you think about it, show Pride too, in their unequalled understanding of the Path of Man. And finally, the Shiba are often seen as quite humble in personality, but if you ever suggested that their Kami was somehow lesser for bending the knee, you would get somewhat of a lecture.

Definitely agree on those two. The iconic negative stereotype of the Dragon is " Stop waiting for the 'day of prophecy' to arrive, get off your mountain and DO SOMETHING !" whilst the worst of the Phoenix always come across as self-righteous to an immense degree; part of the issue between the Phoenix and Unicorn is an instinctive response of "if we don't understand it, it MUST be corrupt black magic of some sort ".

39 minutes ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

Fristly, a note: The following is predicated on the idea that we are talking about the 'Christian' seven mortal sins rather than the three sins as defined in Rokugan.

Honestly, I'd try looking at trying to pick either an 'inverse' or 'negative extreme' of the clan's primary Bushido tenet.

• Crane - Courtesy - Passion
• Scorpion - Duty (over Honour) - Ambition
• Lion - Honour - Revenge
• Crab - Courage (over Courtesy) - Judgement
• Unicorn - Compassion
• Phoenix - Righteousness - I'd agree Pride is sensible concept regardless of theological source
• Dragon - Sincerity

plus for the sake of completeness (not sure on Deer clan yet as I don't have Courts of Stone)

• Mantis - Courage (over Honour)
• Tortoise - Duty (over Courtesy)
• Imperial - Duty (over Compassion)

If you wanted to assign Christian-origin sins, I'd broadly agree:

• Crane - Lust
• Scorpion - Greed
• Lion - Wrath
• Crab - Envy
• Phoenix - Pride
• Dragon - Sloth
• Imperial - Gluttony

4 hours ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

Firstly(sic), a note: The following is predicated on the idea that we are talking about the 'Christian' seven mortal sins rather than the three sins as defined in Rokugan.

I was looking for both actually. How Rokugan (Ningen-do) would view it as well as Thassilon (Golaron).

And thank you both for your perspectives. You both make compelling arguments for which I can ponder(meditate) on. That was exactly what I was looking for with this thread and I appreciate that.

agreed, its really hard to match them up to seven deadly sins. but looking at the bushido tenets, its easy to see how the corruption would occur

• Crane - Courtesy - Passion , allowing ones desires and feelings to overwhelm to the point of being rude to others in seeking it.
• Scorpion - Duty (over Honour) - Ambition , why, whats good for me IS good for the Empire. I'll prove it. (really sounds to me like he's already got the sword...
• Lion - Honour - Revenge , fighting over slights? the story thats out with the lion and unicorn ex betrothed meeting in battle.. . I think this sword is out in the wild as well.
• Crab - Courage (over Courtesy) - Judgement . Going very quickly from, you should all serve at the wall with us! to, how dare you not serve the Empire at the wall. You will serve! If nothing else, your bones will make bricks and your blood mortar!
• Unicorn - Compassion - selfishness . putting ones needs above the herd. treating your horse as a beast of burden and not a friend.
• Phoenix - Righteousness - I'd agree Pride is sensible concept regardless of theological source - pride yes, though i'd call the sword Assurance. Positive belief that what you do is right, without actually judging your rightousness.
• Dragon - Sincerity - treachery. the most believed start lying for no reason, to the point where it is dishonorable to disbelieve, but... it can't be.

10 hours ago, Scrivener Spills said:

Dragon - Sincerity - treachery. the most believed start lying for no reason, to the point where it is dishonorable to disbelieve, but... it can't be.

It'd almost go the reverse. Sincerity - the Bushido tenet - is more than just 'be honest' - taken to its negative extreme it's absolute truth, at all times, even when there are (or should be) shades of grey (which is why the Togashi prefer to mislead people by being cryptic ******* and incomprehensible rather than lies of omission or misrepresentation like other clans). A positive-sounding concept which can cause huge amounts of trouble in the wrong situation might be Integrity.

Somewhere between Righteousness and Judgement. This is true, so that isn't. Because they can't both be true.

hmm, i like it. interesting.

I introduced a Fifth Bloodsword back in my previous campaign as a dark reflection of Zen nothingness called Kyomu (Oblivion), as a subtle temptation to false enlightenment and with mildly 'off' visions that could lead to what the client is wanting, with only occasional 'errors', which the player would interpret as a vision interpreted incorrectly. It also carried the curse of "May You Find What You Are Looking For". It typically ends badly eventually as the corruption quietly takes the person over, and influences them to do things that are...ill advised.

2 hours ago, TheWanderingJewels said:

I introduced a Fifth Bloodsword back in my previous campaign as a dark reflection of Zen nothingness called Kyomu (Oblivion), as a subtle temptation to false enlightenment and with mildly 'off' visions that could lead to what the client is wanting, with only occasional 'errors', which the player would interpret as a vision interpreted incorrectly. It also carried the curse of "May You Find What You Are Looking For". It typically ends badly eventually as the corruption quietly takes the person over, and influences them to do things that are...ill advised.

I can totally see that sword being used to corrupt either the Dragon of Phoenix clans. Only trouble being when it is revealed and presented to those clans.

Before the Second Day of Thunder a certain powerful character in the Dragon Clan would easily recognize it and the source of its power. Using it to go after the Daimyo of the Mirumoto, Kistuki, or Ashaga familes would be a reasonable alternative target, though even then, the aforementioned character would most likely know something is amiss. An irrational fear of said character could be one way the sword would protect its true self from being exposed.

The problem with giving it to the Phoenix is that Ofushikai is used to determine the Clan champion so it is unlikely to be used by the nominal target. As its focus is corrupt void, it would be absolutely reasonable for the Isawa elemental council Master of Void being a target for the sword to pervert. It might be possible for the sword to target the Kaito or Asako family Daimyo, though I doubt that the Kaito family would succumb to is since they tend to focus on archery. Still, perhaps a younger member who is more martial minded and trained in the Shiba martial tradition might be a tempting target for the sword to corrupt.

Just my worthless two Zeni.

That feels like it would be more appropriate to be one of the Obsidian Blades, instead of a Bloodsword.