Every important factor in the upcoming mess

By 987654321, in L5R LCG: Lore Discussion

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On 6/9/2019 at 3:15 AM, James Compton said:

Daisetsu, who is currently "the nice one", is Daigotsu.

Heh. You will be surprised ;) !

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On 6/5/2019 at 1:25 PM, TheHobgoblyn said:

So far the single character in a story who has generally acted in a way that could potentially undermine the smooth functioning of the empire is Kakita Yoshi who blocked official transfer of supplies to the Kaiu wall out of personal grudge.

Oh, come on.

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On ‎6‎/‎16‎/‎2019 at 4:09 PM, KakitaKaori said:

Oh, come on.

Indeed. Blind Ambition implies He blocked the transfer of supplies because the Imperial Advisor told him the Emperor wanted him to meet Yasuki Taka and basically "make them go away".

He was an unpleasant snob whilst doing so - and that's quite possibly because of a personal grudge - but the story implies the material content of the response wouldn't have changed a lot even if the Yasuki had met the Emperor in person.

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48 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Indeed. Blind Ambition implies He blocked the transfer of supplies because the Imperial Advisor told him the Emperor wanted him to meet Yasuki Taka and basically "make them go away".

He was an unpleasant snob whilst doing so - and that's quite possibly because of a personal grudge - but the story implies the material content of the response wouldn't have changed a lot even if the Yasuki had met the Emperor in person.

In fairness most of us who've had issue with him have sited this story and court games as our primary issues with him. He may have been tasked with saying no, but the way he went about it was just horrible. Between making the Emperor look weak (can't protect ships, soldiers marching would be too much for the peasants to handle) and then lobbing personal insults at Taka at every opportunity is not the act of a polished and expert politician and just came across as petty twit lording it over someone he sees as his social inferior.

And I've heard the argument that he was trying to divert anger away from the Emperor and onto himself instead, which may hold more weight if his behavior in Court Games didn't paint the same picture of him. One of the first things he contemplates in the story is tearing into someone who has the nerve to stand in the path he is walking, and when he reminisces about a childhood argument with his brother its about how he did "nothing" to anger him and yet Toshimoko nearly drowned him over a minor argument. Nope everything I've seen about Yoshi at this point leaves me with the image of an efficient man whose personal ambitions and arrogance blind him to many of the consequences of his own actions and leave him unable to consider the idea that others may be just as capable or even more so then he is.

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17 minutes ago, Schmoozies said:

He may have been tasked with saying no, but the way he went about it was just horrible.

Completely agree. That doesn't necessarily mean, as noted, that he had a choice about the script.

I'd definitely concur that he falls into the 'bad Crane stereotype' (i.e. politically connected, a bit smug and really annoying) category in much the same way Bayushi Aramoro falls into the 'bad Scorpion stereotype' (i.e. treacherous and overambitious) category.

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Yeah, uh, as the guy who never passes up a chance to point out that Yoshi is a fool... his folly did not extend to actually blocking a shipment of supplies. The Throne was going to say no to the Crab's request regardless.

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Regarding Yoshi, we should all move on and accept there are Heroes and Villains in every clans in FFG's iteration of L5R. (like in 7th Sea)

Yoshi, portrayed as such a D is one, so is Aramoro. No one tries really to redeem Aramoro, so why bother redeeming Yoshi? Wether he is a fool or a cunning courtier with a very convoluted mind is second to the fact that he acts like a Vilain and for story purpose he is portrayed as an arrogant manipulator.

Vilains aren't all crazy bastards with world ending schemes, and they work towards the benefit of their clans like Heroes. It's just the means and behaviour that makes the difference, and the story portrayal. I guess each clan might have one.

Kuni Yori for the Crab

Yoshi for the Crane then.

Dragon might pop us fan favorite Togashi Kokujin anytime soon, otherwise, not sure they have a Vilain yet.

I think as well Ikoma Ujiaki is a Vilain, maybe Akodo Kage too for Lion

Many high potential candidate for Phenix, From Ujina to Tadaka, but not one yet.

Scorpion has Aramoro and Kachiko and of course is the Vilain of L5R, so even its Heroes may have vilainous ways.

Unicorn hasn't any yet, but then Shahai.

And well, there's Crown Prince Hantei Sotorii.

So that's just it, Yoshi sucks because he is indeed not a nice guy and isn't supposed to be (his treatment of Taka is a bit of a kick the dog though). But he is a powerful Vilain anyway.

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9 minutes ago, Nitenman said:

Kuni Yori for the Crab

Whoa pump the brakes on this one. Yori is clearly a hero. Let's put this to a vote...……..

Yori is a hero, All in favor?

/raises all 4 Oni arms, each holding the dismembered arms of the opposition

Yep, Yori looks like a hero to me.

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Many high potential candidates for villain in Phoenix? Really? Tadaka is about as close as you get...anyone saying Ujina has either been taking crazy pills or speculating that he's going to be brought back as some sort of Nothing-possessed villain/monster. There aren't even any other candidates for a potential villain from Phoenix at this point based on FFG's timeline.

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Don't worry for Phoenix, they have plenty of black scrolls to open and eager elemental masters to do it.

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@Ishi Tonu Once Shadowlands becomes a thing, Yori will surely becomes a Hero.

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9 hours ago, Nitenman said:

Many high potential candidate for Phenix, From Ujina to Tadaka, but not one yet.

Isn't Ujina floating in space?

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For Phoenix villainy...


Well, Tadaka's started down his dark road.

But otherwise their characters whose heads we get into have all been not merely all right, but downright heroic- Tsukune and Kosori are friggin' amazing, and Kaede is clearly good-hearted.

I think the "Phoenix Villain" is simply Tradition- the Council structure makes decisive action all but impossible, their historical reliance upon magic means that the elemental imbalance cripples them worse than anyone else, the fact that they're both hosed and in their wheelhouse has led to things like the Master of Water tsunami-ing the Crane (BEST MASTER OF WATER EVEERRRRRRRRRR!) and Tsuke's apprentice having to take the fall for the little pyrotechnic accident, and the fact that traditionally they've been the best with magic means they haven't even made private approaches to clans of other magical traditions for any insights.

The Phoenix are actually a really cool example of a Clan that it's quite easy to be exasperated with being populated by cool, relatable characters.

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18 hours ago, Ishi Tonu said:

Yori is a hero, All in favor?

Yori, like Yoshi and many others on that list, are neither a hero, nor a villain. He is yet to commit either way, his story so far is really just deep-end Kuni stuff.

As far as I can tell, there is only one real villain in the entire story currently: poor Sotorii. Everyone else is just having tendencies to be an insufferable @ss - some more than others.

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1 hour ago, AtoMaki said:

Yori, like Yoshi and many others on that list, are neither a hero, nor a villain. He is yet to commit either way, his story so far is really just deep-end Kuni stuff.

As far as I can tell, there is only one real villain in the entire story currently: poor Sotorii. Everyone else is just having tendencies to be an insufferable @ss - some more than others.

I'm not even sure Sotorii's a villain. Definitely antagonistic to some of the more relatable characters, but not really set on villainous ends, just childish ones.

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13 minutes ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

I'm not even sure Sotorii's a villain. Definitely antagonistic to some of the more relatable characters, but not really set on villainous ends, just childish ones.

Nah, his ship sailed when he killed the Emperor. He is a straight villain now. A villain with issues, but still a villain.

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Hero / Villain

It's all a matter of perspective.

If Jodan had done some bad things that we don't know about, someone who was the victim of those bad deeds might consider Sotorii a hero.

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On 6/20/2019 at 6:48 PM, Ishi Tonu said:

Hero / Villain

It's all a matter of perspective.

I suppose we are trying to work it out in regards of the overall narrative. So no perspectives.

Edit: What I mean under this is that the question of who likes who and who is working for who is irrelevant, so is any in-setting opinion. We, the readers, must take a step back and just tell whether a character is a "good guy" or a "bad guy". For example, Toturi is a hero because he is toughtful, good natured, and wants to do the objectively right thing, despite Sotorii hating his guts and Tsuko not thinking a whole lot of good about him.

Edited by AtoMaki
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So couple of points confirmed in today's live stream regarding the current/upcoming mess:

All 6 of the stories connected to the Inheritance Cycle will take place within a 24-hour window, with the last fiction being a direct continuation of The Last Stone Played.

Crane Clan Civil War is confirmed by Tyler.

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4 minutes ago, Kaito Kikaze said:

So couple of points confirmed in today's live stream regarding the current/upcoming mess:

All 6 of the stories connected to the Inheritance Cycle will take place within a 24-hour window, with the last fiction being a direct continuation of The Last Stone Played.

Crane Clan Civil War is confirmed by Tyler.

Do you have an archive of that livestream?

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...

Y'know, as someone who never needs another Crane story as long as I live, the prospect of an actual Crane civil war... wherein the principals on every side will be Crane? Yeah... not... not thrilled. :lol:

But it IS nice to see that I was right, and that Tsuko letting Kuwanan go was the most damage she could have done to the Crane...

Edited by Shiba Gunichi
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My question is, should the Crane Clan somehow win the glory race for the Kunshu Kotei season...who gets custody of Kunshu? Or will it be a joint custody thing? Kuwanan gets visitation rights, two weekends a month?

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8 hours ago, Kaito Kikaze said:

My question is, should the Crane Clan somehow win the glory race for the Kunshu Kotei season...who gets custody of Kunshu? Or will it be a joint custody thing? Kuwanan gets visitation rights, two weekends a month?

Give it to Kakita Yoshi, that can only make things better (and yes I am aware of his curse that he is forbidden to touch any swords)

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21 hours ago, Kaito Kikaze said:

So couple of points confirmed in today's live stream regarding the current/upcoming mess:

All 6 of the stories connected to the Inheritance Cycle will take place within a 24-hour window, with the last fiction being a direct continuation of The Last Stone Played.

Crane Clan Civil War is confirmed by Tyler.

Oh boy. I'm going to need some popcorn while I watch this mess go down.

It's nice to see the results of the player story choice leading to devastating consequences for the Crane.