Now that Crown Prince Sotorii's coronation is basically assured to happen inside of a clusterduck of epic proportions, let's step back and look at everything that could will ruin the party!

From the top of my head:

-The entire plan relies on the compliance of an emotionally unstable teenager. By itself, this should aready be enough, but let's not forget:

-Daisetsu has a secret way of spying in the exact room the patricide was committed. While it would be a big coincidence, Rule of Drama ensures that happened.

-Akodo Toturi and Bayushi Shoju know the late Hantei's last edict, and it will surely be very suspicious for them that the Emprah's gone and the wrong heir is on the throne.

-Further reacerbated by a Scorpion shinobi trying to murder Toturi. Who is he gonna blame for this: Shoju or Kachiko?

-Doji Kuwanan is back from Summer Camp and demands answers about his father. Coincidentally, a scroll of unknown content has been hidden among his possessions.

-Oh, yeah, and a Dragon army is going to arrive to the capital any minute now. Any minute. Aaaaaaany minute... Okay, not any minute but eventually.

Edit:

-Yaruma describes the autumn leaves that are falling in the koi pond (a recurring metaphor for Rokugani politics) as blood red. Totally not ominous.

-Kisada descirbes the Crown Prince as a toad. Who is surrounded by Scorpions. Who can swim. Again, totally not ominous.

-Daidoji Uji returns to the capital with a giant Crane army.

-Kachiko suspects Yoshi may take advantage of the upcoming chaos to try to become the effective ruler of Rokugan.

-Which is a bit hypocritical since that's exactly what she's doing.

-Sotorii is convinced Daisetsu knows about the edict. That will certainly cause conflict.

-If anything happens to Daisetsu (maybe because of the reason above), Shahai might go berserk and kill everyone.

-Hametsu is not going to stand doing nothing while his sister has her moment of glory.

-And the moxt important one: the fanbase has grown tired of waiting for something to happen so now something will happen.

This one's from Ultimatecalibur:

From the new fic:

-Aramoro believes Toturi to be dead.

-One of the people aware of the edict is leaving the city to do unknown stuff.

-Kaede has made weird elemental mumbo-jumbo to resurrect Toturi.

-Friendzone-sama is aware that shinobi tried to kill Toturi, and there is only one Clan heavily associated with shinobi.

-Yaruma watched Kaede having a magical breakdown. He might suspect something.

Aaand updating:

-Kuwanan has discovered a (possibly false) letter and has declared war on his sister, supported by the Emerald Champion.

-Yoshi has a spy network that found out about the Emperor's death quite fast despite Kachiko trying to cover it up. (thanks to Magnus Grendel)

-Sumiko already dislikes Sotorii, is aware there was a plan for an alternative succession and her rpg rules say she serves the Empire, not the Emperor. (again, thanks to Magnus Grendel)

And updating again:

-Sotorii has gone full puberty emo berserk tantrum and actually thought that committing seppuku was a good idea.

-Daisetsu wasn't spying on his father's chambers because he's a sweet responsible kid, but he's still aware about his guilt.

-Furthermore, Sotorii knows Daisetsu knows Sotorii killed his father and is not above calling the guards on him.

-Daisetsu knows Sotorii knows Daisetsu knows Sotorii killed his father and is not above calling the guards on him, so he has left the capital with Shahai.

-Shahai may have deactivated the wards on the capital. Oops.

-Daisetsu has started showing troubling unDaisetsulike behavior.

-Shahai is part of the same family that is cursed to betray everyone they love.

-The Empress wanted to be dead after Daisetsu was born and has been closing herself off to the world since.

And again:

-Mitsu is now pledged to serve Daisetsu and by extension Shahai and join them on their road trip.

-Hitomi is meanwhile using her army as guards in the Imperial Palace. The current guards might be slightly annoyed by someone taking their job.

-Sumiko is the acting Emerald Champion until Toturi returns, so she is basically the Emerald Champion.

-There are unconscious guards outside of the city.

-Kaede has messed up with fate enough to worry Mitsu about the future's impredictability.

And again:

-Shoju has made himself Regent of Rokugan, but his claim will only be valid if he finds Daisetsu.

-Toturi feels ashamed of failing the late Emperor and is willing to follow a dark path.

-He also has all the reason to believe Shoju commited a coup.

-Kaede is oficially confirmed to be pregnant.

-This Kagi guy is really involved in everything. Might be wise to watch him closely.

Again:

-The regency proclamation is official, and the edict has been recovered and made public. Any way Sotorii could still end up on the throne is assured to be really awkward.

-If Daisetsu doen't show up soon, things are going to appear very suspicious to the Imperial Court.

45 minutes ago, 987654321 said:

Now that Crown Prince Sotorii's coronation is basically assured to happen inside of a clusterduck of epic proportions, let's step back and look at everything that could ruin the party!

We have two crown princes. Nothing is for certain...

No. Remember the Scorpion letter? It specifically said it's Sotorii who's getting crowned.

3 hours ago, 987654321 said:

No. Remember the Scorpion letter? It specifically said it's Sotorii who's getting crowned.

And that's definitely Bayushi Kachiko's (and Miya Satoshi's) view on things.

Which is not necessarily automatically what's going to actually happen since most of the palace (let alone the rest of the Empire) doesn't even know the old Emperor is dead yet.

Most of the other clans assume Sotorii is the crown prince because as yet no-one outside of Kachiko, Sotorii, Shoju and Toturi knows the edict ever existed.

We Think .

I would assume nothing public is going to happen until the Kunshu Kotei results shake out, unfortunately.

12 hours ago, 987654321 said:

-Daisetsu has a secret way of spying in the exact room the patricide was committed. While it would be a big coincidence, Rule of Drama ensures that happened.

...

I had forgotten about this, and I think this is the single most important fact called out in the OP. This is a "gun on the mantel piece" sort of foreshadowing, and does not happen by accident. In checking the fiction "Imperial Gifts", it's the same author as "The Last Stone Played".

Is it that secret though when its just a matter of sitting in the right spot in the garden.

Eh, it seems like more than just "the right spot in the garden."

Moreover... what if it's not Daisetsu who saw what happened... but that unstable ball of self-pity and Daisetsu worship we call Shahai?

On 6/3/2019 at 9:55 PM, Shiba Gunichi said:

Moreover... what if it's not Daisetsu who saw what happened... but that unstable ball of self-pity and Daisetsu worship we call Shahai?

That would be like if Daisetsu saw it, but with more hilarity for the scene where Shahai drops the bomb for him. I would imagine the actual reveal would take place at night, while raining outside, with Daisetsu staring out of a window and a long description of how his image is reflecting on a nearby mirror or something. Then Shahai would burst into the dark room where there is a single candle glowing in a remote corner to have dark, deep, and ominous shadows everywhere. She tells Daisetsu what she saw, panics, and proposes some kind of dump plan. But Daisetsu just waves her off, looks up with a gaze that pierces into the darkness in front of him and says "Good. All according to the keikaku." Writer's note: keikaku means plan.

Since things are going down relatively cleanly regardless-- one really has to wonder why Togashi sent the Dragon army to the capital in the first place.

It really ought not to matter very much who is sitting in the big chair-- so long as they sign off on the minister's and general's decisions, don't make too many unreasonable demands and generally just sit and act like a nice little symbol and let the bureaucracy go about the business of actually running the empire.

So far the single character in a story who has generally acted in a way that could potentially undermine the smooth functioning of the empire is Kakita Yoshi who blocked official transfer of supplies to the Kaiu wall out of personal grudge.

Anyway, this is kind of a weird scenario. The "bad" brother is planned to be crowned and players are intended to aim to disrupt that and put the "good" brother on the throne-- but there is no actual in-world justification for doing so.

I suppose Toturi could rebel and run around the empire crying out that the empire signed an edict just days before he died saying he wanted his other son to be crowned. I am not sure how many people would be reasonably inclined to believe and side with him over the word of the crown prince.

Also-- isn't it odd that there is no restriction against running both Sotorii and Daisetsu in the same deck?

I am still not certain a functional Imperial deck can be made, but now one can make a deck with nothing but pure Imperial Family stuff in the Dynasty side.

35 minutes ago, TheHobgoblyn said:

Anyway, this is kind of a weird scenario. The "bad" brother is planned to be crowned and players are intended to aim to disrupt that and put the "good" brother on the throne-- but there is no actual in-world justification for doing so.

I think the intent is to split the players between the two heirs, with one side believing Toturi's story (thus supporting Daisetsu) and the other not (thus supporting Sotorii).

29 minutes ago, AtoMaki said:

I think the intent is to split the players between the two heirs, with one side believing Toturi's story (thus supporting Daisetsu) and the other not (thus supporting Sotorii).

Right, but it is a bit difficult to do that when one character has been presented rather negatively, with a single story giving even sympathetic elements, and then the players are shown that he killed his father.

And the other one has been presented almost entirely positively, with only hints that there might be something more sinister to him, and readers have even gotten to see inside his head to indicate that he is against some of the more superstitious and brutal aspects of the culture in favor of a more enlightened approach.

And the character who is siding with the later is a character who has been demonstrated to be practically flawless, even demonstrating the exact opposite of the negative traits typically associated with his clan.

Granted-- this is the L5R fanbase that has a 20-year track record of specifically choosing the darkest or most ridiculous decisions that the story team offers, as if to just constantly troll them to see how they will handle it.

But the characters in the story have nothing to go on but Toturi's word while the players have gotten to see a lot of events that had no witnesses.

I suppose because this whole in-world conflict revolves around "ambiguous" events that aren't remotely ambiguous to the players that it really deflates any sort of attempt to divide the player base into competing teams over this as one would expect to make the situation compelling.

At this point, anyone whose favorite clan is one that doesn't believe Toturi is going to be made to feel like they are in the "idiot" clan because their clan is in denial of something that the entire playerbase already knows is indisputable absolutely true.

Anyone who has ever run an RPG where players are meta-gaming and tried to explain to them that their character doesn't know something (or has been the person who is told their character is ignorant of something that they in fact know and could resolve everything very easily if they simply act on their knowledge) would understand this frustration.

No one wants to be on the side that is definitively wrong before the conflict has even been declared.

1 hour ago, TheHobgoblyn said:

Right, but it is a bit difficult to do that when one character has been presented rather negatively, with a single story giving even sympathetic elements, and then the players are shown that he killed his father.

And the other one has been presented almost entirely positively, with only hints that there might be something more sinister to him, and readers have even gotten to see inside his head to indicate that he is against some of the more superstitious and brutal aspects of the culture in favor of a more enlightened approach.

And the character who is siding with the later is a character who has been demonstrated to be practically flawless, even demonstrating the exact opposite of the negative traits typically associated with his clan.

Granted-- this is the L5R fanbase that has a 20-year track record of specifically choosing the darkest or most ridiculous decisions that the story team offers, as if to just constantly troll them to see how they will handle it.

But the characters in the story have nothing to go on but Toturi's word while the players have gotten to see a lot of events that had no witnesses.

I suppose because this whole in-world conflict revolves around "ambiguous" events that aren't remotely ambiguous to the players that it really deflates any sort of attempt to divide the player base into competing teams over this as one would expect to make the situation compelling.

At this point, anyone whose favorite clan is one that doesn't believe Toturi is going to be made to feel like they are in the "idiot" clan because their clan is in denial of something that the entire playerbase already knows is indisputable absolutely true.

Anyone who has ever run an RPG where players are meta-gaming and tried to explain to them that their character doesn't know something (or has been the person who is told their character is ignorant of something that they in fact know and could resolve everything very easily if they simply act on their knowledge) would understand this frustration.

No one wants to be on the side that is definitively wrong before the conflict has even been declared.

There is a lot of area still to play with though. For all his he is the more likable and been shown as the preferable heir when you read between the lines of Daisetsu's character you actually start to see that he could actually be one of the biggest threats to the security of the Empire by being to progressive. Some of his ideas would shake the empire to its core and could easily fracture the balance that is currently maintained between the clans.

There is also the question of how his brother's coronation and his reaction will go down. I'm still expecting that there will be a showdown between the brothers that will end with a critically injured Daisetsu only being saved by the intervention of Shahai and some Meishodo magic that may be seen to taint him in the eyes of the larger populace (if he actually dies and she resurrects him somehow then its all over for him). From there we could easily have a loyalist vs. progressive split for most clans and it becomes which emperor do you choose, the tainted and possibly now connected to Jigoku Daisetsu or the mentally unstable Steel Chrysanthemum 2 Electric-Booga-loo in the making Sotorii.

2 hours ago, TheHobgoblyn said:

Right, but it is a bit difficult to do that when one character has been presented rather negatively, with a single story giving even sympathetic elements, and then the players are shown that he killed his father.

And the other one has been presented almost entirely positively, with only hints that there might be something more sinister to him, and readers have even gotten to see inside his head to indicate that he is against some of the more superstitious and brutal aspects of the culture in favor of a more enlightened approach.

And the character who is siding with the later is a character who has been demonstrated to be practically flawless, even demonstrating the exact opposite of the negative traits typically associated with his clan.

Granted-- this is the L5R fanbase that has a 20-year track record of specifically choosing the darkest or most ridiculous decisions that the story team offers, as if to just constantly troll them to see how they will handle it.

But the characters in the story have nothing to go on but Toturi's word while the players have gotten to see a lot of events that had no witnesses.

I suppose because this whole in-world conflict revolves around "ambiguous" events that aren't remotely ambiguous to the players that it really deflates any sort of attempt to divide the player base into competing teams over this as one would expect to make the situation compelling.

At this point, anyone whose favorite clan is one that doesn't believe Toturi is going to be made to feel like they are in the "idiot" clan because their clan is in denial of something that the entire playerbase already knows is indisputable absolutely true.

Anyone who has ever run an RPG where players are meta-gaming and tried to explain to them that their character doesn't know something (or has been the person who is told their character is ignorant of something that they in fact know and could resolve everything very easily if they simply act on their knowledge) would understand this frustration.

No one wants to be on the side that is definitively wrong before the conflict has even been declared.

Without proof and the Emperor, it’s whether you believe the edict or not. Even with the player base knowing it’s truth, it is still unconstitutional and against the will of the kami to depose the rightful heir Sotorii.

One would assume Shoju will be working toward the goal of removing Sotorii. Given what we know so far it seems he was more loyal to the Jodan than Kachiko, and therefore more likely to honor his last request. As far as Scorpion influence is concerned one indebted heir is as good as another and Daisetsu right now seems like the more controllable and friendly heir to the Scorpion anyway. So it isn't just Toturi screaming for the justice and looking like a rebellious vassal. I'd think Shoju is the more relevant and subtle player here for team Daisetsu.

Though I think it might be unlikely that Shoju would stand with Totori if he presents his proclamation considering it will be contested by Sotorii, Satoshi, Kachiko and probably the entire court. My guess is he'd try to find another way.

2 hours ago, TheHobgoblyn said:

Granted-- this is the L5R fanbase that has a 20-year track record of specifically choosing the darkest or most ridiculous decisions that the story team offers, as if to just constantly troll them to see how they will handle it.

Actually, the fanbase taken as a whole has often been mind-numbingly conservative when it comes to aligning with "bad guy" factions or taking their turn as designated villains. The ridiculous wingnut choices tended to come down to individual players winning events that let them make their weird calls.

See Honorable Dragon Movement for the ur-example, but it's not an isolated case.

which is why I think it's always better if they refrain from making the clans out and out villains. We should have clans being antagonistic with each other, but there should always be some sympathetic motivation. That way people can still stand behind their clan even if they seem antagonistic to the majority of the other clans.

So far I think they've done a great job of this with the exception of the Lion. With the exception of Toturi (who is a man alienated by his clan) the Lion almost always come off as bullies in the new continuity unfortunately. That's not a wrong way to portray them, but I think we need more time seeing their side of things. It feels like the antagonism/protagonism scale is way off in that clan.

10 hours ago, phillos said:

which is why I think it's always better if they refrain from making the clans out and out villains. We should have clans being antagonistic with each other, but there should always be some sympathetic motivation. That way people can still stand behind their clan even if they seem antagonistic to the majority of the other clans.

I'll always hold the Khan's March up as how to do it right- Chagatai was very much the villain of the story, but in a cool, comprehensible way.

10 hours ago, phillos said:

So far I think they've done a great job of this with the exception of the Lion. With the exception of Toturi (who is a man alienated by his clan) the Lion almost always come off as bullies in the new continuity unfortunately. That's not a wrong way to portray them, but I think we need more time seeing their side of things. It feels like the antagonism/protagonism scale is way off in that clan.

Part of the problem is that even at their best, the Lion are usually insanely hardcore. They don't generally get softer, humanizing tales- the only exceptions that spring to mind are from pretty late in AEG's run- Akodo Dairuko's doubts about her ability to run the Lion, Matsu Kasei as Turquoise Champion... otherwise, you've got stuff like Matsu Domotai's seppuku, which was absolutely awesome, but it also required an utterly unyielding guy like Domotai to make it work.

The lion at the moment come off as slightly buffoonish pastiches of comedy villains. The writers have explained in previous posts that this is because they aren’t given enough words for the stories to show military conflicts, and imo that is a massive limit on showing the lion as a force, considering 90% of lion material is “doing a bit of a war”. Another issue they have is their portrayal in courtroom scenarios, aka the Ikoma twiddling moustaches. They kind of come across as stuffy boorish villains. Rather than bards singing the songs and telling the tales of glorious lion battle. All in all the lion are a bit like samurai Klingons before they had any character except as baddie of the week, rather than the later conquering banter laden alcoholics.

12 hours ago, phillos said:

One would assume Shoju will be working toward the goal of removing Sotorii. Given what we know so far it seems he was more loyal to the Jodan than Kachiko, and therefore more likely to honor his last request. As far as Scorpion influence is concerned one indebted heir is as good as another and Daisetsu right now seems like the more controllable and friendly heir to the Scorpion anyway. So it isn't just Toturi screaming for the justice and looking like a rebellious vassal. I'd think Shoju is the more relevant and subtle player here for team Daisetsu.

Though I think it might be unlikely that Shoju would stand with Totori if he presents his proclamation considering it will be contested by Sotorii, Satoshi, Kachiko and probably the entire court. My guess is he'd try to find another way.

If they do it 'right' - to avoid some of the problems @TheHobgoblyn notes about being on the 'wrong side' - then you should probably have one pro-Sotorii and one pro-Daisetsu faction in each clan.

Taking the lion as an example, Toturi* would clearly fall into a pro-Daisetsu position; he bloody well knows the edict was real because he was the one the Emperor dictated it to . Whilst he's the Lion Clan champion, though, Matsu Tsuko and Ikoma Ujiaka, whilst they're not rebelling against his authority openly, seem to take every opportunity to sideline him, creatively misinterpret his orders, and take discrete pot-shots at him to the rest of the clan, and might well come down advocating that the lion should be supporting Sotorii largely because Toturi isn't .

You could have a similar split in most of the clans. Shoju (and probably Dairu)/Kachiko is an obvious one for the Scorpion.

The Phoenix - Kaede* is probably likely to side with Toturi. She trusts him and if she thinks he's telling her the truth then logically Daisetsu is the 'correct', but the Phoenix are one of the traditionalist-heavy clans so I'm sure you can find someone to come down on the other side. Tadaka's 'progressive' views on experimentation** might have a resonance with Daisetsu, I don't see him specifically 'knowing' either party.

The Crane...less obvious. Hotaru doesn't really have a specific stake in it but Kakita Yoshi is the Crane's man-at-court. There's also the fact that the abdication and regency might well be Doji Satsume's plan, so someone in the crane might well find out what was supposed to happen.

The Unicorn - Obviously Shahai is massively pro-Daisetsu because she's "in twue wuv". An interesting question, comparing her to how she was at the start of 'Heart of the Garden' is if she now would want to leave Otosan Uchi if given the option.

The Dragon - don't know. Obviously Agasha Sumiko is fully aware that Sotorii is a spoiled little [censored], but we don't know exactly what the dragon army has been sent to do. Not sure how the Perfect Land plays into it, but that could be somehow connected to their respective views of the princes. One thing to note is that the clan champion specifically selected a perfect land sect sympathiser as the dragon's Topaz Championship contender, which suggests he may be more openminded about it than some other samurai in the clan.

The Crab - really don't know. Of all the clans, they feel like they've got the least internal conflict at the moment, and there's no clear philosophical line to split the clan along.

Imperial Families? The 'rightful emperor' is obviously the one who gets crowned. Miya Satoshi clearly doesn't care (much) about the fact they planning to appoint a mentally unstable regicide provided no-one knows. I can imagine the Seppun (if they find out) having a different view - if nothing else, they failed in their primary duty; a reigning hantei emperor died a violent death and publicly or secretly someone has to pay for that, even if it's just a few high-profile seppun seppuku.

* assuming they both survive Bayushi Aramoro's attentions.

** not that experimenting with the forces of darkness ever goes wrong, does it, Yutani-san?

3 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

The Crab - really don't know. Of all the clans, they feel like they've got the least internal conflict at the moment, and there's no clear philosophical line to split the clan along.

Maybe not a philosophical divide but Kuni Yori is clearly working on a spiritual divide.

Kisada - "Well Yasuki Taka was unsuccessful. Who else can I send to the capital to advocate for the Crab concern. I hate all my children.... maybe Kuni Yori can convince them of the severity of our plight from the lack of jade."

7 minutes ago, phillos said:

Maybe not a philosophical divide but Kuni Yori is clearly working on a spiritual divide.

Kisada - "Well Yasuki Taka was unsuccessful. Who else can I send to the capital to advocate for the Crab concern. I hate all my children.... maybe Kuni Yori can convince them of the severity of our plight from the lack of jade."

Or more likely, my Lord I've mastered an art that will allow us to purge our forces of the the taint.

Step one - I will need everyone to put on these cute porcelain masks.
Step two - I have this really great standard we will need to march under, have you seen Sukune anywhere....
Step three - reveal that none of it works and I've been driven mad by the influence of jigoku and am dragging the entire Crab army to **** with me
Step four - profit

Either way that the Crab would be fighting for the fate of their soul rather than some high minded philosophy would be thematically appropriate.

21 hours ago, TheHobgoblyn said:

I suppose because this whole in-world conflict revolves around "ambiguous" events that aren't remotely ambiguous to the players that it really deflates any sort of attempt to divide the player base into competing teams over this as one would expect to make the situation compelling.

Well, yes, the writers are obviously expecting the players to not meta the story and RP their choices. They are also giving a pretty darn order in my opinion with this story.

8 hours ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

Part of the problem is that even at their best, the Lion are usually insanely hardcore.

I would love to see the Lion as insanely hardcore. But, like, honest-to-goodness unironic hardcore. No shouting, no angst, no tears, no nothing, just getting sh-t done in the best possible way. OK, the Matsu can shout, that's kinda their thing.

I love how Sotorii is still being a giant **** like in the original story, and Daisetsu, who is currently "the nice one", is Daigotsu. I am just waiting for the reveal that Daisetsu is a follower of Fu Leng, and this time around he'll be the one who turns Sotorii into the vessel of the Dark God.

On 6/9/2019 at 10:15 AM, James Compton said:

I love how Sotorii is still being a giant **** like in the original story, and Daisetsu, who is currently "the nice one", is Daigotsu. I am just waiting for the reveal that Daisetsu is a follower of Fu Leng, and this time around he'll be the one who turns Sotorii into the vessel of the Dark God.

Or maybe the choose to change everything, and Daisetsu is not a follower.

Maybe he will see how Rokugan betrayed him and so choose to fight it again. And we have a new faction!