Inspired by the Isawa Tadako v Isawa Rujo combat, I've been trying to create rules for that kind of ritual fight. One of my PCs is a Shugenja, and he's interested in the way they portrayed it. I'm considering doing this in place of the Melee for him and the NPC Shugenjas in the upcoming Topaz Championship.

https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/e3/ef/e3efaf1c-63df-4705-9573-2cd13725c611/l5c08_disciples-of-the-void_preview-fiction.pdf

It doesn't fit as a Taryu-Jiai, because the competitors are trying to convince each other's kami to come live in their own shrine rather that just beat each other into submission using elemental spells. So this is what I've sketched out in the last... 30 minutes of thinking about it? It's gonna need some work, I'm sure.

Phase 1: Enshrine the kami .

TN1 Theology – Using the element matching the kami to be enshrined. Success adds 1 to Initiative (plus an extra 1 for every bonus success).

OP+: Increase shrine Endurance by 1 per OP spent.

Initiative is Focus. Shrine Endurance is equal to double the value of the Ring corresponding to the kami enshrined.

Phase 2: Take turns. Run as either a Duel or Skirmish

Each character begins within Range 1 of their own shrine.

New Actions:

Bolster: As a Support action, using the Ring matching your kami , TN2 Meditation: increase your shrine’s Endurance by 1.

OP+: Deal 1 fatigue to another shrine within a Range equal to the Ring used for the check.

Coerce: As an Attack and Scheme action, target a shrine within Range 0-2. TN2 Theology using the Ring matching the kami within the targeted shrine. Deal fatigue to the target shrine equal to your Ring used, plus 1 per bonus success. You may use an Offering for its Invocation bonus on this action.

Phase 3: Resolution.

When a shrine’s fatigue exceeds its Endurance, the enshrine kami flees to another shrine. If multiple shrines are still standing, the kami will flee to one matching its own element first, and its opposing element last.

Looks interesting.

My observations:

• Finding and enshrining the kami is shown as a much bigger deal - more like a narrative scene than a part of the duel itself, though one section of a conflict scene can be drawn out; after all a mass battle 'turn' lasts hours....
• Automatically going to the 'correct' element feels wrong. A part of the challenge of the duel is not knowing the nature of the kami the other shujenga has enshrined. Once they start lobbing invocations, then it's going to become obvious pretty fast, but if someone plays a conservative game, then you might find you've committed, making yours obvious, first (which feels like it should put you at a disadvantage if your attempt at coercion fails).
• Feels like there should be 'lure' as an option as well as 'coerce'. Tadaka wasn't expecting his master to go for the 'just smash the bloody thing' option, which implies it's not his normal style and hence it's possible to win by tempting the kami to your shrine without destroying the other one. I'd consider Coerce attack and Lure scheme
• Bolster doesn't feel like it should be causing fatigue. If you make it 'damage' not 'fatigue' then you can have the potential to grant it spiritual resistance with spends. Also, it should have a 'per bonus successes' effect - ideally per two bonus successes, because bolster should always be less effective than coerce.
• Stances. If it's a conflict scene, you don't get a free choice of ring; your rings used is tied to your stance. Essentially, there should be three stances which matter in this sort of event:
  • Void Stance - preferable for immunity to spiritual backlash and for trying to discern spiritual insight about the 'enemy' kami ( note - rather than just saying 'you can use an offering', make coerce an invocation for all rules purposes and then both offerings, backlash and any invocation-specific school abilities will work). Could also be useful for (less potent) bolster actions which don't reveal the nature of your kami (higher TN?).
  • The ring associated with 'your' kami - best for bolstering or coercing (since 'attack invocations' must logically use your kami), but makes the nature of your kami blatantly obvious
  • The ring you think is associated with the enemy kami - best for luring, but guessing wrong could make matters worse by offending it with entreaties suited to an opposing element (increasing the TN of subsequent Lure actions?). Giving the shrine a composure would let you use strife to measure the kami's loyalty whilst fatigue measures the endurance of the shrine itself...

12 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Looks interesting.

My observations:

• Finding and enshrining the kami is shown as a much bigger deal - more like a narrative scene than a part of the duel itself, though one section of a conflict scene can be drawn out; after all a mass battle 'turn' lasts hours...

Would be covered in narrative time as prep for the duel. This was to represent the part where Tadaka takes his amulet, places it in the stone cairn, then puts the leaf on top.

12 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Automatically going to the 'correct' element feels wrong. A part of the challenge of the duel is not knowing the nature of the kami the other shujenga has enshrined. Once they start lobbing invocations, then it's going to become obvious pretty fast, but if someone plays a conservative game, then you might find you've committed, making yours obvious, first (which feels like it should put you at a disadvantage if your attempt at coercion fails).

Not sure what you mean by this. You have to take the stance matching the other kami ; there's nothing automatic about it. Given that Commune with the Kami is a ritual, usable as a support action, or the Theology skill can be used to detect the elements around you, those would likely need to be done first. Tadaka of course had an advantage here: they were both clearly Earth shugenja.

12 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Feels like there should be 'lure' as an option as well as 'coerce'. Tadaka wasn't expecting his master to go for the 'just smash the bloody thing' option, which implies it's not his normal style and hence it's possible to win by tempting the kami to your shrine without destroying the other one. I'd consider Coerce attack and Lure scheme

Bolster doesn't feel like it should be causing fatigue. If you make it 'damage' not 'fatigue' then you can have the potential to grant it spiritual resistance with spends. Also, it should have a 'per bonus successes' effect - ideally per two bonus successes, because bolster should always be less effective than coerce.

Lure/Coerce is exactly what I was going for, but I wanted a way to represent how much the kami 'liked' the shrine it was in. That's why I gave the shrine an Endurance/fatigue mechanic just to keep it in line with existing rules.

"Target with Rocks" using Earth Invocations as what Rujo did, would be entirely distinct from this type of action.

Also, 'bolster' is making your shrine 'nicer.' The opportunity to inflict fatigue is representing the other guy's kami going, "oooh, I see what you did there. Hey... that's kinda nicer, y'know..."

Any suggestions on how to tweak to be more representative of what I'm going for, now that I've explained my thought-process a bit?

10 hours ago, Hida Jitenno said:

You have to take the stance matching the other kami ; there's nothing automatic about it. Given that Commune with the Kami is a ritual, usable as a support action, or the Theology skill can be used to detect the elements around you, those would likely need to be done first.

The comment about automatic is that as written, " TN2 Theology using the Ring matching the kami within the targeted shrine" feels a bit weird. Since you set your stance before you choose an action, either

1. you're retroactively changing stance on choosing your action
2. ignoring the normal 'stance mandates ring' process,
3. telling a character what the element of the kami is before they choose their stance
4. or else saying "no, that action automatically fails" if you're in the wrong stance (in which case, that should probably be said explicitly).

10 hours ago, Hida Jitenno said:

Given that Commune with the Kami is a ritual, usable as a support action

Commune With The Spirits , but yes. Probably worth noting is the range limit; given that this is a formalised event, I'd imagine there'd be a default starting range between the shrines.

It is an obvious first action, but unless it's mandated by the rules for the scene type, then there needs to be a script for what happens if they don't do it. If you know what element your opponent has used, you might take a risk and 'win' a free turn as a result whilst they use Commune With , but what happens if you do that and guess wrong?

10 hours ago, Hida Jitenno said:

"Target with Rocks" using Earth Invocations as what Rujo did, would be entirely distinct from this type of action.

Fair enough, but it's clearly a viable option. Which is why part of me suggests giving the shrine both an Endurance and a Composure - most 'kaboom' invocations will cause fatigue or damage, so if endurance is the toughness of the shrine then most 'attack' invocations can be ported into this scene to cause their standard effect without needing modification, whilst strife could be used to represent how 'happy' the kami is.

The idea is to let as many techniques and abilities as possible work for their 'normal' effect - see the observation about making lure, coerce and bolster count as invocations for stuff like the Isawa school ability.

10 hours ago, Hida Jitenno said:

Also, 'bolster' is making your shrine 'nicer.' The opportunity to inflict fatigue is representing the other guy's kami going, "oooh, I see what you did there. Hey... that's kinda nicer, y'know..."

By that logic, bolster improving your shrine's endurance/resistance and inflicting strife on the enemy might work?