Hello everyone !

The Fatigue and Stress rules are amongst my favorites of this V3 edition. But as I'm still waiting for the Magicians and Priest's supplements before switching over, I was wondering how this mechanic actually plays out in play ?

1) In a typical combat, how often do PCs suffer from penalties related to fatigue and stress ?

2) Having a character pass out after Fatigue Stress gets too high fits in the story usually, or does it seem over the top ?

3) Do you call for Resilience or Discipline tests in Story Mode, failures resulting in Stress or Fatigue ?

4) How often do PCs carry Fatigue and Stress over from Episode to Episode, or even from day to day ?

5) Does your group roleplay their Fatigue/Stress status ? (Do they roleplay Stances, for that matter ?)

Thanks for your responses !

(And please add anything interesting I might have overlooked regarding Fatigue and Stress.)

Fatigue and Stress are fun but as per the RAW they rarely carry over from day to day. Don't forget however that the GM may always 'award' more persistent F&S points when appropriate (sources may be: a very long and tiresome trip; a constant malicious influence; not feeding/drinking properly; bad/short rest; or whatever reason that makes sense). Be sure to put the players in situations where they do care about an extra point of stress or fatigue and the threat of blacking out from exhaustion is significant!

Fatigue/Stress disappear during a good night's rest.

OK.

But what about the course of any one day ? Do you often have PCs that come out of an Act Fatigued an/or stressed ?

Jericho said:

I do, but that's only because I've houseruled the fatigue/stress recovery bits.

By the rules as written, you can vanish all of your fatigue/stress by spamming the basic action card Assess the Situation, or a friendly cleric with the wave of a hand, or just by starting any meaningless new encounter (detailed argument scene with a peasant, start a pub fight) at the end of which you recover more.

By the rules, they're gone in an instant, and it takes GM fiat to offer any penalties for having climbed a mountain for 12 hours in a freezing wind, or becoming more and more unnerved by the environment of a Chaos-infested cave.

It's a rule whose idea I love, but it hasn't been fully thought through.

Juriel said:

Our GM hasn't houseruled anything and we still come both into and out from acts/encounters with stress/fatigue. You do get a lot of it back when an encounter ends (T/WP # tokens are removed) and Rally steps means even more gets removed. But if you get fatigue/stress during story mode you will not really get rid of it until you rest (or possibly until you have played through an encounter, but the encounter itself may then have added additional tokens). In principle you could think of fatigue/stress taken during an encounter as being absorbed by an adrenaline buffer, you're able to push yourself a lot more during conflicts. You have to manage it during encounters and between encounters (if you get some in story mode), but normally you don't need to worry too much about fatigue/stress when you transition from encounter to story mode.

I don't get how you can spam Assess the situation. You mean that you do that action instead of attacking the monsters before the end of the encounter? But who takes care of the monsters then? Or are you talking about munchkin metaplaying where you would keep one monster alive just to make sure everyone is at zero fatigue? In any case, any GM who has some experience knows how to handle that, just throw more and more monsters at them until they get it. Or take the more mature route and ask the players if they want to roleplay or not. Honestly, I wouldn't want to GM for players that do stuff like that.

The GM decides whether an encounter starts or if action cards can be used in story mode. Just say no to the players (well, ok say yes but add that if they roll a 2*bane a greater daemon appears, you are supposed to say yes after all). The players can't pick fights to start an encounter, that is just not how it should work. The GM can handwave a bar brawl in story mode, "you knock down the peasant, guards appear, you get beaten up, take 4 wounds, you get no rest for the night and have to pay a fine of 10 silvers to get out of prison".

It has been thought through, the rules just need to be sensibly applied by the GM (and players for that matter). To answer the original question, I think the fatigue/stress system is loads of fun. It adds a layer of complexity, but is not too hard to keep track of. It's not a novel thing for WHFRP3e (other games have similar concepts), but I think it's a solid part of the system. I especially like how it ties into the insanity rules.

Fatigue and Stress have had a pretty profound impact on the characters in my game. One character picked up an insanity due to stress, and during last night's session a particularly vicious attack from a harpy dealt 1 critical, 5 wounds, 5 fatigue, and 4 stress in one fell swoop. I've found my players actually take Fatigue and Stress into account with their own roleplay, which is fantastic. Having a physical representation of "Your character has been pushed to the edge and the world is starting to go black" has really helped with the mood of the game and getting my players to see just how dire some situations have been.

MSpookshow said:

Nice. That's what I was hoping to hear.

But there seems to be a slight problem if you use Rally steps as written, no ? Almost no PCs will ever move out of an Act with residual Stress or fatigue ?

(How the heck can a Harpy cause 5 Fatigue and 4 Stress ? Where did you get Harpy stats anyways.?)

That has more to do with people recovering their Toughness/Willpower rating worth of points at the end of each encounter. Since an encounter is unlikely to cause 4 Fatigue and Stress, they're likely sitting at 0 at the end of each, so there rarely is anything for Rally Act to even affect.

My experience is that PC tend to generate fair amount of stress and fatigue. Especially during Fear / Terror check, my PCs tend to fail those tests and general a fair of them depend on Fear/Terror rating.

I only give them one chance to use assess situation between encounters, so the stress and fatigues tend to accumulate slowly and surely to make them watch out for the accumulation.

I also love to use NPC's action which help to generate more stress or fatigue.

Just lately I was planning on putting my PCs in a survival situation where stress, fatigue and party tension would be a huge part of the challenge, instead of encounters. I don't think every session will be see stress, fatigue and wound threshold being of prime important. But I do think you can design encounters where the emphasis will be on managing one, two, or even all of those levels.

Personally I'm looking forward to running my survival session and seeing how an entire session based around trying to manage an ever increasing amount of fatigue and stress will work. So far my players have always had an us VS them type adventure, and I think a combatless us VS the harsh wilderness could be interesting.

Jericho said:

True, the players usually don't have lingering stress and fatigue between encounters. This has worked out fine for us, though. Sometimes I do award fatigue or stress that does not go away until story conditions are filled (usually a full night of rest) so ...

I used the stats for a Daemon Fury for the harpies. Strafing Talon Strike is the power that wrecked the PC. I think it was actually 5 fatigue and 3 stress. The player has the Oppressive Fear insanity (1 or more wounds taken = 1 fatigue), Short of Breath critical (1 fatigue for using an active defense), and had 3 critical wounds total for the 2 success line of that attack. The attack also caused 5 wounds +1 critical as I recall. Harsh.

MSpookshow said:

Indeed, harsh... but fun !

I like "Die Hard" heroes that need to overcome wounds, fatigue and stress to eventually win the day. Makes victory all the more sweet.

I totally agree. One of my players is more used to heroic games, so Warhammer has so far been a bit of a shock, but he says he is enjoying himself. There is a great aura of tension that has been slowly creeping in the game, as my players have thus far been completely unable to heal their critical wounds ... basically creating a death spiral. I'm almost weary to really allow them a good amount of time to rest up in a Shallyan temple, as the pervading atmosphere of dread has been refreshing. If previous sessions are any indication, however, I doubt it was take long to get it back ... lol.

Juriel said:

This is my thought as well. I'm glad it's present in the system as I can house rule it.

I think what the system is missing is long term fatigue/stress, but you can house rule that pretty easily.

I end up forgetting Acts and recovery personally. It feels a little artifical to me, so I just decide when is a good time for the players to take a bit of recovery. Because of how I do it, the players do not recover as much as the system says it should.

"Long term fatigue/stress", that is what wounds are. Serious physical long term injuries are called crits. Serious long term mental injuries are called insanities. Fatigue and stress are meant (designed) to be short term things that the players can get rid of easily.

In my opinion there is no problem in the rule system to have the players rack up fatigue/stress over long time, the GM just have to a) deal out fatigue stress when it seems appropriate (if you want your players to be fatigued after a battle just give them additional fatigue afterwards), b) use fewer (if any) rally steps, c) the use of acts is anyway very arbitrary, if you don't want players to recover then don't call it a new act.

I repeat, there is no need to call what you're doing a house rule, you are using the rules as written. The GM is supposed to make these arbitrary decisions, you cannot expect the rules to cover every eventuality.

Example:

After a fierce battle (after which they recovered quite a lot of fatigue) the PC's have returned to the inn for a nights of well-deserved rest. But they barely have time to lie down before the innkeeper yells that there are bandits at the door. The GM then makes the call that the PCs should be tired and really in need of rest , he thus says that they are fighting under supoptimal conditions (+1 misfortune dice on all rolls). He can instead use the fatigue mechanic and just add 3 fatigue to each before the battle starts (which I think is a much more fun solution than the 1 black die. Nothing in the rules stop him from doing this.

Sarim Rune said:

I agree that Wounds are more long time hurt. The problem with wounds, is that they don't cause penalties. You can have 1 Wound left to your threshold and run around full Strength.

That is why, as a GM, I'll aways try to give Fatigue/Stress out in a way that truly reflects how the PCs are hurt.

Maybe if you go under half your Wound Threshold, you lose your free manœuvre ? So when action starts, you quickly get Fatigued ?

Another way to make PCs Fatigued or Stressed on the long run is to dish out points (or test Resilience/Discipline) during story mode. And no recovery before an encounter (unless said player specifically says his character takes a few hours to rest, before the encounter is announced/commences).

Which means PCs can start an encounter with 1 or more Fatigue/Stress points already suffered.

Jericho said:

In Korea war there was made research about how wound trauma affects people during fight. To sum it up there were three kinds of effects of combat wound trauma: death, shock and no effect at all.

I find it counter realistic (not that this game is close to realism ) to remove PC options when they are low on health. Adrenaline can make a man run 2 km after attacker with a stab wound in the heart (real life situation).

D.

Sure Dheran,

But what happens to that same guy three hours later ? When something new comes along ? Will the adrenaline suddenly erase all pain ?

Aren't critical wounds a measure of long term physical trauma? After a 5x5 soccer match on handball pitch I typically feel the effects 1-2 days after - muscle aches and stiffness. During the match any pain of recent injury goes away really quickly.

Critical wounds are penalties in themselves, normal wounds for me are just cuts and bruises. Some people can stand more of them and thus have bigger wound threshold. During fight PCs get fatigue/stress damage from particularly damaging blows, but this is included in those action cards.

Answering to your question: 3 hours later the guy is still cut and bruised, so next fight will be harder for him. During the fight he will feel probably only the most grievous wounds (criticals) but he won't have time to think about the rest of wounds - fighting for survival kinda does that to human.

D.