I am very interested in the imperial families. One of the biggest doubts I have is in the economic relation, how much they earn (Daimyō Miya, Otomo, Seppun) per year / month, how does the resources of these families work, does it take tribute from any clan? (If someone can reply, thank you)

6 hours ago, ADGabriel said:

I am very interested in the imperial families. One of the biggest doubts I have is in the economic relation, how much they earn (Daimyō Miya, Otomo, Seppun) per year / month, how does the resources of these families work, does it take tribute from any clan? (If someone can reply, thank you)

Some taxes are set at an imperial level (the Emerald Champion was reviewing taxes on barley whilst waiting for the Emperor in Tiger Stalks His Prey) which presumably means they're collected by or at least for the Imperial Families.

The Imperial Families don't really earn much directly - the Emperor basically owns the whole shooting match and lets people farm/live in/trade on his rivers, fields, cities and roads in exchange for tribute and taxes. There are a few purely 'imperial' domains directly administered by an imperial governor (like The City of the Rich Frog), where most of the city's revenue will presumably go directly into imperial coffers.

How much any of the Daimyo has as a personal allowance/stipend/whatever from the Emperor and their own estates? Not a clue, aside from "a shed-load".

@TheWanderingJewels put up a nice exploration of what Rokugani currency actually means here:

Which suggests a nominal amount to draw on of about 5,000 Koku per year as a personal discretionary wealth (i.e. without having to record it or justify it to anyone else in the family beyond "want that one"). If you're after something as the Miya Daimyo rather than just Miya Satoshi as an individual .....frankly the sky's the limit.

There has never been much information on it which can be both a blessing and a curse.

This is how I would currently handle it, more from a lore pespective than anything else:

Hantei: They don't seem to have any direct holding. Even Otosan Uchi is partitioned to governors, although as these seem to be exclusively appointed positions rather than hereditary we can assume there are taxes being levied on the city for them. This is extremely unusual and with no real world equivalent for non-figurehead rulers.

Maybe the City of the Rich Frog counts as one of their direct Holdings.

Speaking of taxes we also don't have much information on them. The lack of direct Hantei holdings is a bit of an anomaly if you compare it with real world examples and in feudal societies charging taxes on vassal was not done unusual complicated . There is also the Rokugani focus on rice which is even more extreme than that of Tokugawa Japan, and rather a-historical to say the least. Lets just say there is, probably, some taxing being done over the clans.

Using some tidbits from both Emerald Empire and the old pre-FFG lore I would say that some of the expenses of the court end up being indirectly outsourced to the clans.

For example the maintenance of Imperial Highways and Waystation towns. For an example in Tokugawa Japan they were mantained by the Shogunate and subsidized but I can in Rokugan having to be mantained by the clans while providing income directly to the Imperial Court. Labour corvées for Imperial Holding provided by the clans could be another example which has historical precedent in many places, including Japan. We have a direct example in the fact that the Tortoise used to charged with firefighting in Otosan Uchi.

Another example is Winter Court. Much like Royal Progresses they allow the Hantei to do some proximity rulership or "show the flag", so to speak, in different parts of the country. Since the hosting cost are the exclusive responsability of the host clan, so the Hantei manage to oth not have any upkeep for about four months every year and levy an additional economic burden on a possible rival.

In a gift-giving society like Rokugan this can also be used to work as a form of taxation while mantaining the outward appearance it isn't. Again, the Tokugawa provide a good example of this, but the Chinese tributary system can also be used as a model.

Seppun: They have their own lands on what seems to be a in fairly fertile area. If the lore hasn't changed they also hold Koutetsukan on the Islands of Silk and Spice. I assume most of their income come from these holdings.

Otomo: If there have been no changes from the old lore, the Otomo have no holdings other than their palace in the Imperial Mound, so that means they would be subsidized by the Hantei themselves.

Having said that, in the old lore after a specific event, the Otomo were given lands formerly belonging to the Crane. Personally I don't like how the Hantei and their direct vassals lack holdings despite being shown to be more than figureheads, so I would retroactively make the Otomo own that holding from the beggining and be their main source of income.

Miya: They have their own lands Southwest of the Spine of the World Mountains. It doesn't seem to be a very developed area, but it is very large and with apparent room for expansion, so I would say that the Miya are potentially the highest income earners of the Imperial families.

Looking back the Lands of the Imperial Champion, while intended to support the EC may also contribute for Imperial income in the periods where there is no Champion appointed.

As for incomes, therehas never been any example. For the historical examples when Daimyo got an actual legal definition during the Azuchi-Momoyama period they were landowners with lands valued at at least 10000 Koku. The domains of the Tokugawa shogunate were 5 million koku.

Whether that applies to your Rokugan or not is for you to decide.

On 4/23/2019 at 6:30 PM, ADGabriel said:

I am very interested in the imperial families. One of the biggest doubts I have is in the economic relation, how much they earn (Daimyō Miya, Otomo, Seppun) per year / month, how does the resources of these families work, does it take tribute from any clan? (If someone can reply, thank you)

The Emperor owns everything. At least on paper and in the eyes of heaven. I believe that all the Clans pay leases/taxes every year to the Imperial Throne. And those taxes largely fund the Imperial Families. As noted the families also have various (usually minor) holding that also generate at least some revenue. And the Imperial Court can offload some of their upkeep with the Winter Court.

On a practical level I would assume that the Imperial families have Diamyo that are as rich as their Great Clan counterparts. Per EE the Miya start with 8 koku, The Otomo with 9 koku, and the Seppun start with 6 koku. That suggests that Miya and the Otomo are among the richest families (at least per capita) with the Seppun lagging somewhat behind...though not poor! The Seppun still start with more wealth than any of the families of the Crab*, Dragon, Phoenix or Lion clans.

On a practical level, if an Imperial Daimyo wants it, they have it.

*excluding the Yasuki

when they have the crown of the amethyst champion , the emperor and high ranking imperials have basically limitless wealth (as long as they don't misuse it), but the crown is known to occasionally go missing which brings ruin to the person who lost it. I believe that the crown is missing in 1123 (The canonical current year). I'm not sure how long it's been missing, but I think it's been a pretty long time. I would also point out that the needs of the emperor are directly supported by tortoise clan.. you could consider tortoise cities as being the cities of Hantei.