I'm going to have to agree with that. One of the things that we have all had to deal with is retconns and mistakes, at least when dealing with the 40k universe. In this case, multiple explanations have been offered that can deal with the timeline discrepancy. With that said? I can empathise with Adam France's frustration. In this case, though, I'm less after the minutiae and more after how things are going to be handled in general.

I've got my own interpretation of Marines and I'm just wondering how, or if, FFG are going to have me jaw dropping open with just how cool of a concept they've come up with.

Kage

Yes, intelligent and inventive gamers can always come up for an explanation for pretty much anything. Especially in a setting such as 40K which can be read so many different ways.

However ... I think FFG's seeming inability to stick to canon re even pretty big things in it's fairly limited bit of the setting (such as what millenia the Sector was founded in), is indicative of a bigger problem. That is, a seeming ... disdain, for fluff. A preference for rules bloat over consistent and detailed setting information. That's why I'm moaning. I buy these books for help with setting, new ideas for planets, organisations, adventures, history, etc etc I could give a fig for new rules. FFG needs to get it's focus onto the setting more imo.

Adam France said:

Amen to that!

Adam France said:

I don't know if it's a disdain for fluff so much as good old fashioned sloppiness. The end result is the same either way I suppose.

To me this new Chapter pretty much sums up the creative direction of FFG of late: as in there doesn't really seem to be one. It's just not in any way inspiring or interesting.

GW disdains the fluff. All they care about is selling minis for the table top and making money on any other product they can. How often do they retcon or completely ignore their own fluff? I believe the answer to that is every time they release a new codex or novel.

Adam France:
I buy these books for help with setting, new ideas for planets, organisations, adventures, history, etc etc I could give a fig for new rules. FFG needs to get it's focus onto the setting more imo.

Yup, that's your opinion. My opinion: I have so much planetary and organizational background fluff from Star Wars and many other settings that I don't care about, nor do I want big books of planets, adventures, history, etc. A little bit of this info goes a long way for me.

As a GM I don't like having everything spelled out for me. A little bit here and there and a few things that can easily be adapted to fit what I need are all I want. I find the more detailed something is the more restrictive it is.

Atheosis:
To me this new Chapter pretty much sums up the creative direction of FFG of late: as in there doesn't really seem to be one. It's just not in any way inspiring or interesting.

Why, because they don't have twenty years of fluff like the other chapters or because they are blue?

I honestly wonder if people would have reacted different if they had a green or maroon paint scheme.

ItsUncertainWho said:

Nah ... it's not that their color scheme is blue. It's because they are sticklers for honor (like the Smurfs), and have a "unknown mysterious background" where they don't know who they are descended from (like the Blood Ravens) ... and very little else, at least that we know so far. Meh ...

It's not that that wouldn't be interesting if it hadn't been done before, several times. Ack! We just wanted something truly original and interesting! I don't see where that is so wrong. Whatever ...

ItsUncertainWho said >>>

Yup, that's your opinion. My opinion: I have so much planetary and organizational background fluff from Star Wars and many other settings that I don't care about, nor do I want big books of planets, adventures, history, etc. A little bit of this info goes a long way for me.

I would rather have a richly explored setting that contains information that I ignore, rather than a poorly developed setting that is all smoke and mirrors and that, if I want to make sense of anything, I have to recreate everything myself. Thus, in the long run I would love to see this material. Even if I buy it I don't have to use it, just like I don't have to use every single rule in a game book if I don't want to.

It strikes me that it is always better to have something and not use it, rather than not have it and find that you need it.

ItsUncertainWho said >>>

As a GM I don't like having everything spelled out for me. A little bit here and there and a few things that can easily be adapted to fit what I need are all I want. I find the more detailed something is the more restrictive it is.

For me, I find it is always interesting to have a solid framework of interpretation to which you can make exception to, rather than an amorphous blob of exceptions to which you have to create structure.

ItsUncertainWho said >>>

Why, because they don't have twenty years of fluff like the other chapters or because they are blue?

I honestly wonder if people would have reacted different if they had a green or maroon paint scheme.

The colour scheme doesn't bother meI'm colour blind. Kinda.

Kage

ItsUncertainWho said:

Are you kidding? I don't give a **** about the color scheme. They're just a completely unoriginal and boring Chapter. It made me laugh when Ross made reference to B&C as inspiration, especially seeing as several Chapters on that site are categorically better than the Storm Wardens (though most are horrifically bad). When you consider that FFG writers are supposedly professionals, and that they're being upstaged by and inspired by a bunch of amateurs, it's just sad.

Perhaps that actually raises the issue of what defines a "professional" from an "amateur?" As it stands it seem to be based upon the name on the company that is signing your pay cheque. For a while now, I've found that most of the GW materials are being improved upon by fans, and that the quality of the fan work has been improving steadily...

I've found that one of the motivations for this was seeing the jaw-dropping production values on Dark Heresy . Suddenly everyone, myself included, were playing with layout programs, thinking about how to improve the look of fan publications, etc. I find it very comforting to know that the fans take inspiration from the "professionals." One has to wonder whether it works the other way around and, as we have seen, that does seem to be the case.

<me in positive mode>

Kage

Kage2020 said:

I don't personally see any particular distinction in terms of the potential for quality in official vs fan-made material. Afterall, I was asked to write for FFG based on the strength of the work I've done in my spare time. While I would say that what I've written for FFG is better than the stuff I've done before, I attribute that more to practice (everything I write gives me opportunities to improve on my previous efforts) and having a clear focus (in the form of deadlines, outlines and so forth) than anything else.

It was a generality. Perhaps it has something more to do with being shackled less by corporate interest and more serving what someone sees as in the "interest" of the universe? They can get more into the substance then might be allowed by the "professionals," i.e. the people that are hired by the companies and must subscribe to the legalities?

Kage

Kage2020 said:

I can, of course, speak only for my own experiences. Ideally, I'd like to claim that my approach doesn't change significantly whether I'm writing for my own amusement or for an assignment, but I've been more willing to delve deeper with my assigment work, to think about things I wouldn't necessarily have considered by myself, and do things I might not otherwise have attempted, because I've had an external source of focus.

I don't ascribe any particular difference to the potential for quality - anyone writing RPGs professionally has their talents whether they're being paid to use them or not - but I wouldn't necessarily say that writing professionally has 'shackled' me in any way. Quite the contrary - the process of being assigned material means that I've had to look for inspiration, where fan material seldom is seldom so driven, as it draws more upon people doing what they want to do at the time and what they're comfortable doing. Simply put, professional work has challenged me more, because with fan material there is no inherent incentive to push myself.

Again, this is per my own experiences, and in no way represents anything but my own feelings and opinions on the matter.