I have an example question about the order of an attack.

Player 1 attacks Player 2, who is in light cover. Player 1 rolls 3 blacks, gets 1 damage and 1 critical hit. In step 5, that damage is removed by the cover. Cover can't remove critical results, crit results pierce through cover, but it doesn't matter that he rolled that crit because there is 1 damage that cover CAN cancel, so it cancels it. This damage is 'canceled' as per the wording in step 5:

Quote

Apply Dodge and Cover: If the defender has a dodge token or is in cover, the defender may spend dodge tokens and apply cover to cancel hit (󲉠) results. Dodge tokens and cover cannot be used to cancel critical (󲉡) results. » A unit can apply cover only against ranged attacks.

Next step is to apply any card effects that can modify the attack dice. So say it was Scout Troopers and they have Sharpshooter, this is where the attacker would go, Ok I have Sharpshooter 1 so your cover is actually 0, which means that damage you canceled now goes through. Or is that damage already gone because it was canceled? Or is this step strictly mean anything that modifies the dice specifically, such as a re roll, or convert surges etc..?

So if the ability was to convert a damage to a crit, you can't do this PRIOR to cover being applied, because that is a step 6, and cover is applied in step 5, so that damage would actually already be canceled. But if the effect was like sharpshooter, a static reduce cover, then that is something you apply at the time of the attack being declared?

Where in the attack timing does it say 'apply static keywords from cards'? Is that section 2(b) when you are choosing the weapon?

31 minutes ago, FrogTrigger said:

I have an example question about the order of an attack.

Player 1 attacks Player 2, who is in light cover. Player 1 rolls 3 blacks, gets 1 damage and 1 critical hit. In step 5, that damage is removed by the cover. Cover can't remove critical results, crit results pierce through cover, but it doesn't matter that he rolled that crit because there is 1 damage that cover CAN cancel, so it cancels it. This damage is 'canceled' as per the wording in step 5:

Next step is to apply any card effects that can modify the attack dice. So say it was Scout Troopers and they have Sharpshooter, this is where the attacker would go, Ok I have Sharpshooter 1 so your cover is actually 0, which means that damage you canceled now goes through. Or is that damage already gone because it was canceled? Or is this step strictly mean anything that modifies the dice specifically, such as a re roll, or convert surges etc..?

So if the ability was to convert a damage to a crit, you can't do this PRIOR to cover being applied, because that is a step 6, and cover is applied in step 5, so that damage would actually already be canceled. But if the effect was like sharpshooter, a static reduce cover, then that is something you apply at the time of the attack being declared?

Where in the attack timing does it say 'apply static keywords from cards'? Is that section 2(b) when you are choosing the weapon?

Sharpshooter is applied when determining cover, before dice are rolled.

Modifying attack dice generally refers to Impact. Surge conversion does not fall under dice modification, it happens right after the attacker is done rolling and rerolling attack dice

15 minutes ago, KommanderKeldoth said:

Sharpshooter is applied when determining cover, before dice are rolled.

Modifying attack dice generally refers to Impact. Surge conversion does not fall under dice modification, it happens right after the attacker is done rolling and rerolling attack dice

Fair enough, just curious where in here it specifically says that in the RRG so I can point to it at our next session. Is it Section 2 (b)

Quote

b. Choose Weapons:The attacker can choose one weapon from each eligible mini to contribute to the attack pool. To choose a weapon, the attacker must meet all requirements indicated by that weapon’s keywords, and that weapon’s range must include the range of the attack, as determined from the attacker’s unit leader to the closest mini of the defender.

Where it says that when you choose your weapon you are checking 'requirements indicated by that weapon's keywords'?

I just would like to know the specific part of the RRG where it says, your card says sharpshooter destroys a cover, this is where we add that keyword into the calculation in the attack. Like it obviously makes perfect sense to me it happens before you start taking away damage from the cover, because otherwise what is the point of sharpshooter? Just need to have it laid out clear.

Page 53 under sharpshooter explains when sharpshooter is supposed to kick in.

5 minutes ago, FrogTrigger said:

Fair enough, just curious where in here it specifically says that in the RRG so I can point to it at our next session. Is it Section 2 (b)

Where it says that when you choose your weapon you are checking 'requirements indicated by that weapon's keywords'?

I just would like to know the specific part of the RRG where it says, your card says sharpshooter destroys a cover, this is where we add that keyword into the calculation in the attack. Like it obviously makes perfect sense to me it happens before you start taking away damage from the cover, because otherwise what is the point of sharpshooter? Just need to have it laid out clear.

There is no specific step that says "add in x keyword here" because it would quickly become bloated with new keywords. If you just read the keywords themselves they will tell you all that you need to know. Sharpshooter 1 reduces cover by 1, that happens when you are determining cover.

Impact is modifying dice results, so it gets slotted in during the attacker modifies results portion of the flowchart. Armor also modifies results so it gets slotted in to the defender modifies results step.

One thing that confused me early on was what constitutes 'dice modification'. I come from an X-wing background and 'modification' in that game covers everything from re-rolling to converting symbols to adding results. In Legion 'dice modification' refers exclusively to keywords that alter hit and crit dice results such as Impact or Armor.

Ok so it doesn't specifically say "during this step look at your card and use common sense" we just need to have the common sense to realize that an ability that is going to affect cover, should be applied during the cover stage. Makes perfect sense, was just curious how the wording was laid out.

I didn't play X-Wing, but I know in Imperial Assault with command cards timing was everything, so trying to figure out your timing windows to make sure everyone is doing everything correctly is a chore, but once you've got it down you know and it becomes a reflex.

Thanks for clearing that up. It also makes sense that step 8 specifically refers to abilities on cards that affect dice results.

This should help clarify things for next time.

15 hours ago, FrogTrigger said:

Ok so it doesn't specifically say "during this step look at your card and use common sense" we just need to have the common sense to realize that an ability that is going to affect cover, should be applied during the cover stage. Makes perfect sense, was just curious how the wording was laid out.

I didn't play X-Wing, but I know in Imperial Assault with command cards timing was everything, so trying to figure out your timing windows to make sure everyone is doing everything correctly is a chore, but once you've got it down you know and it becomes a reflex.

Thanks for clearing that up. It also makes sense that step 8 specifically refers to abilities on cards that affect dice results.

This should help clarify things for next time.

Sharpshooter doesn't even need common sense, it's a case of looking up the rules for the keyword and applying them appropriately. The wording of Sharpshooter X,

Quote

During the “Apply Dodge and Cover” step of an attack, a unit with the sharpshooter x keyword subtracts x from the defender’s cover.

• When determining cover, add cover values (not exceeding heavy cover), before subtracting cover values.

tells you exactly when to apply it. Besides, it isn't modifying dice (directly anyway), it's modifying Cover. So it modifies how many dice Cover can remove, but it doesn't directly modify the attack pool