Key Positions Middle Objective Token Placement

By Hoffburger, in Rules

Which player places the token on the central piece of terrain? Per the rules you are not allowed to end up on top of an objective token. You can move through it, but you cannot land on top of it. Therefore it is advantageous to be the person placing the token in a way that might limit placement options for your opponent. So the question is, which player places the token?

It doesn’t matter.

The token is just an indicator of which piece of terrain is the objective

41 minutes ago, mini78 said:

It doesn’t matter.

It does, per pg. 45 of the rulebook under Objective Tokens: "Miniatures can move through but cannot overlap objective tokens."

9 minutes ago, Steelgolem said:

The token is just an indicator of which piece of terrain is the objective

Nothing in the rulebook says that is the case. They follow all the rules for objective tokens, but cannot be claimed.

Edited by Hoffburger

The central piece of terrain is the central piece of terrain. It doesn’t matter who places the objective token. Regardless of who places the token, that piece of terrain is the piece which is contested for VPs.

Edited by mini78
2 hours ago, mini78 said:

The central piece of terrain is the central piece of terrain. It doesn’t matter who places the objective token. Regardless of who places the token, that piece of terrain is the piece which is contested for VPs.

Yeah I don't think you understand the question. It's not WHAT piece of terrain is selected, it's WHERE on that piece of terrain is the token placed. You cannot overlap objective tokens in the game, so it is beneficial to be the one placing the token.

This is a niche but interesting question. Assuming that the Blue player places it would probably make sense, but is not explicitly stated anywhere.

8 hours ago, Hoffburger said:

Which player places the token on the central piece of terrain? Per the rules you are not allowed to en  d up on top of an objective token. You can move through it, but you cannot land on top of it. Therefore it is advantageous to be the person placing the token in a way that might limit placement options for your opponent. So the question is, which player places the token?

1. Place an objective token on the piece of terrain closest to the center of the battlefield (if multiple pieces are equally close to the center, the blue player chooses). Then, starting with the blue player, each player places 1 objective token on a piece of terrain. Each token must be placed on a piece of terrain that is completely outside all deployment zones and beyond range 1 of any other piece of terrain with an objective token. If a player is unable to place a token according to these rules, they can place that token on any piece of terrain that does not have an objective token and that is outside all deployment zones. If that token still cannot be placed, then it is not placed.
that is from the errata section of the rules section.
2. the terrain doesn't become the objective token
as pointed out in the victory part:
At the end of the game, for each terrain piece with an objective token, the player who has the most unit leaders in base contact with that terrain piece gains 1 victory token.
the objective token is still not able to land on it but you can be on top of the terrain as it doesn't become the objective token.

The way I do it, I measure with a measuring tape the exact center of the table. (18 inches by 36 inches) Just to be fair when it comes to distance if able, and place the token as best able in that exact spot. Technically that should solve your issue, or just suggest to place it on a location on the terrain that you both figure no one will end their move.

12 hours ago, azeronbloodmoone said:

1. Place an objective token on the piece of terrain closest to the center of the battlefield (if multiple pieces are equally close to the center, the blue player chooses). Then, starting with the blue player, each player places 1 objective token on a piece of terrain. Each token must be placed on a piece of terrain that is completely outside all deployment zones and beyond range 1 of any other piece of terrain with an objective token. If a player is unable to place a token according to these rules, they can place that token on any piece of terrain that does not have an objective token and that is outside all deployment zones. If that token still cannot be placed, then it is not placed.
that is from the errata section of the rules section.
2. the terrain doesn't become the objective token
as pointed out in the victory part:
At the end of the game, for each terrain piece with an objective token, the player who has the most unit leaders in base contact with that terrain piece gains 1 victory token.
the objective token is still not able to land on it but you can be on top of the terrain as it doesn't become the objective token.

I think you also misunderstood the question. This is asking where you place the token on the terrain, not which piece of terrain is selected.

6 hours ago, Tokous said:

The way I do it, I measure with a measuring tape the exact center of the table. (18 inches by 36 inches) Just to be fair when it comes to distance if able, and place the token as best able in that exact spot. Technically that should solve your issue, or just suggest to place it on a location on the terrain that you both figure no one will end their move.

Yeah but the rules don't tell you to do this.

7 hours ago, Hoffburger said:

I think you also misunderstood the question. This is asking where you place the token on the terrain, not which piece of terrain is selected.

anywhere on it, the entire terrain is counted as the objective to be touching. and if both players don't agree either roll off on it, or have a T.O. place it.

I guess it would be the blue player? I see what you’re saying though. I suppose it’s possible to limit access to various pieces of terrain by placing the token a certain place.

14 hours ago, azeronbloodmoone said:

anywhere on it, the entire terrain is counted as the objective to be touching. and if both players don't agree either roll off on it, or have a T.O. place it.

Maybe you're really not picking up what he's asking. According to the rules he has quoted, you CAN'T end movement on top of an objective token under anyt circumstances. That means whoever gets to place the token on the terrain to designate it as a Key Position gets to decide where it is (and accordingly where a model CAN'T be). It's a small thing that probably will rarely matter, but I could see placing it in such a way that you could prevent snipers or Pathfinders from getting into a good vantage point. The "solutions" you're proposing are not really that helpful given that that's what you do when the rules fail and are ambiguous.

Edited by arnoldrew

I would think blue player, as they are the ones that get to pick terrain in case of tie.

I've seen players like this in other miniature games (throwing objectives in very restrictive parts to be advantageous to them vs others), can tell you thats the stuff that made our gaming community hurt as people just stopped showing up because of these little nuances getting played at to get a tiny win. I would expect in tournaments that TO would just move it so that the token isn't creating a problem or benefits both parties.

1 hour ago, arnoldrew said:

Maybe you're really not picking up what he's asking. According to the rules he has quoted, you CAN'T end movement on top of an objective token under anyt circumstances. That means whoever gets to place the token on the terrain to designate it as a Key Position gets to decide where it is (and accordingly where a model CAN'T be). It's a small thing that probably will rarely matter, but I could see placing it in such a way that you could prevent snipers or Pathfinders from getting into a good vantage point. The "solutions" you're proposing are not really that helpful given that that's what you do when the rules fail and are ambiguous.

so the solution of the nitpicking of where to place it, as the person you controls the card would be the blue player, he places it on the terrain piece initially and ask the red player if that looks okay, if they disagree they roll off to decide if its left there (any time players disagree they roll off its in the rules for this) if they still can't agree with the end result then call a T.O. over i did state this before.

22 hours ago, Hoffburger said:

Yeah but the rules don't tell you to do this.

Indeed I keep forgetting common sense and fairness don't tend to apply to the masses as much as it should be. I said this many times, it isn't what the rules don't say, it is what the rules DO say. In a way of speaking it does say to do that in the rules, it says for the token to be placed on terrain that is closest to the center. With what I said, how is that anything less than what should be done so no player gains an advantage regardless where it ends up since it is exactly as best as able in direct center!? If I place it literally exactly in the center, how could anyone say I did something incorrect??????

Perhaps you forgot another solution which does apply:

Quote

RESOLVING DISPUTES
Players should always attempt to come to an agreement regarding disputes about situations on the battlefield. If players cannot come to an agreement, such as determining the range between two miniatures or line of sight from one mini to another, the player with the round counter should roll a red
defense die; on a block (󲉣) result, that player’s interpretation of the situation is considered correct and play continues. On any other result, the interpretation of the player without the round counter is considered correct and play continues.

Don't like where it was placed? Request it be placed somewhere else, opponent doesn't agree then roll on it.

Ultimately agreeing with what Gridloc said above this reply, If you are doing something like I do so it is fair you shouldn't have an issue... if however you are trying to rule criminal bending the rules with word play and such so you gain an advantage over your opponent then next to no one will want to play this game with you and you'll be bringing this cool game down discouraging new and current players to play this game.

On the positive side, I like you are open minded enough to see the token goes in the center and you can't end a move on it which maybe rarely will cause a player to not be able to end a move there for whatever reason. Personally at this time I can't think of any reason to do that even if could, as I wouldn't need any unit located where ever the token would ever be since it just needs to be in base contact with the terrain to score the victory point.

I think the only way this would affect the game meaningfully is if you placed the token on the roof of a big flat building such that you can preclude an airspeeder from ending it's move there.

If you're in a tournament setting and your opponent is playing one or more airspeeders you probably don't need to exploit rules technicalities to win.

1 hour ago, KommanderKeldoth said:

I think the only way this would affect the game meaningfully is if you placed the token on the roof of a big flat building such that you can preclude an airspeeder from ending it's move there.

If you're in a tournament setting and your opponent is playing one or more airspeeders you probably don't need to exploit rules technicalities to win.

Pathfinders and possibly snipers might be affected as well.

If the rooftop vantage point is small enough to be blocked off by a single objective token I imagine a competitive player wouldn't want to deploy there out in the open anyway.

Realistically it would be an unimaginable fluke for this to influence the tides of wars in any shape or form with any unit currently known. ROFLMAO. yet I'm not challenging the validity of this in very rare and isolated situations having an initial effect on game play, since why would anyone move deliberately in the center of the table/on top of terrain where the objective token is while playing Key Positions when all you need to do is be in base contact with the terrain!? I still say I like the awareness of the concept and getting it out and about, yet please don't push the serious concern of this for it is not and virtually has no value as a strong point or hindrance in this game at this time. Thank you for the awareness though, thinking out side the box puts you so far ahead of the many who don't.