Has any one noticed some of the particular choices FFG has made when writing their rules. I think I understand the reasoning behind their "rule sentence structure" and to be honest very few rules in Legion are ambiguous or confusing. Having said that, sometimes strictly following that structure may create situations that need to be cleared. The latest example that brought this to mind is Jyn Erso's 1 pip command card.

Rebellious : Jyn Erso gains Charge . Once  per  round when an enemy unit at range 1-2 and in line   of  sight of Jyn Erso activates, before it performs its Rally  step, Jyn Erso may gain 1 suppression token to either  perform an attack against that unit or to perform  a  free move  action   .

We all understand that Jyn gains "charge" for this turn and also the ability to gain a suppression to attack the activated unit or perform a move action. But why use the phrase "once per round..." instead of "once this round..." I'm not arguing that she keeps this ability for any subsequent turn but as mentioned before why not change the standard structure to make it completely clear? Am I missing something here?

I just read that card myself and had exactly the same thought.

Usually the word choice is selected very carefully to convey meaning and in this case "per" suggests you are able to take the supression token this round and in each remaining round but only do so once during any given round.

If that is not the intention then "once this round" seems clearer.

Perhaps there's some wording in the RRG that makes clear the events that come from command cards only apply for the current round whilst the card is active? That said the RRG does state that card wording overrules the RRG and "per" would then override the RRG ?

My gut feeling is it should only be for "this" round. But considering how carefully wording has been picked in the rules to convey meaning up to now, I'm on the fence.

20 minutes ago, DwainDibbly said:

Perhaps there's some wording in the RRG that makes clear the events that come from command cards only apply for the current round whilst the card is active?

Quote

Pg. 21 Each command card that has not been returned to a player’s command hand is discarded during the End Phase and its effect ends.

There might be ways in future for a command card to not be discarded at the end of the round, so by saying "per round" instead of "this round" Jyn's card is future proofed.

17 hours ago, mini78 said:

Pg. 21 Each command card that has not been returned to a player’s command hand is discarded during the End Phase and its effect ends.

But doesn't the rules say that cards override the rules? In this case "per" contradicts the "effect ends" rule as it's stating the effect does not end, but applies per round. Although I guess that may depend on how explicit the contradiction needs to be?

Quote

If an effect on a card or another component contradicts rules found in the Learn to Play booklet or Rules Reference, that component takes precedence.

Don't get me wrong, I do think it should end during the End Phase, but it seems an odd choice of wording if that's the case.

1 hour ago, DwainDibbly said:

But doesn't the rules say that cards override the rules? In this case "per" contradicts the "effect ends" rule as it's stating the effect does not end, but applies per round. Although I guess that may depend on how explicit the contradiction needs to be?

That's not a contradiction. A contradiction would be "this card is not discarded during the end phase". It does indeed need to be explicit; otherwise we can head down a rabbit hole of implicit contradictions everywhere! (E.g., I can attack twice with Steady because the attack action it grants is an implicit override of the once-per-activation rule.)

1 hour ago, DwainDibbly said:

Don't get me wrong, I do think it should end during the End Phase, but it seems an odd choice of wording if that's the case.

My take is that they worded it this way to be consistent with other effects, just to keep the design space open to affect everything the same way. Consistency keeps everything clean and easy to work with.

14 minutes ago, nashjaee said:

That's not a contradiction. A contradiction would be "this card is not discarded during the end phase". It does indeed need to be explicit

That makes sense.

I doubt this would come up during play anyway as there doesn't appear to be any disagreement on it applying for the current round only despite the "per" wording. Always nice to have a thread to point to though should it crop up

On 2/26/2019 at 5:55 AM, DwainDibbly said:

That makes sense.

I doubt this would come up during play anyway as there doesn't appear to be any disagreement on it applying for the current round only despite the "per" wording. Always nice to have a thread to point to though should it crop up

Actually it did last game I played. I know the consensus is that it only lasts the one round but I would have to disagree because of the wording. Once PER round meaning each so if the golden rule comes into effect then Jyn's effect would overrule so charge would only take effect the current round only but the latter effect should remain. That's just my opinion but I sent an email for an official ruling

13 hours ago, metlfan said:

Actually it did last game I played. I know the consensus is that it only lasts the one round but I would have to disagree because of the wording. Once PER round meaning each so if the golden rule comes into effect then Jyn's effect would overrule so charge would only take effect the current round only but the latter effect should remain. That's just my opinion but I sent an email for an official ruling

The golden rule also requires the card to specifically contradict the RRG, which it does not. If the card was intended to last for the rest of the game it should say "This card is not discarded at the end of the round" or "this card's effects last until the end of the game." Nothing on Jyn's card outright contradicts the RRG.

Emails seem to be having a slower turn around than normal lately, probably due to Adepticon.

On 2/25/2019 at 1:35 PM, Caimheul1313 said:

There might be ways in future for a command card to not be discarded at the end of the round, so by saying "per round" instead of "this round" Jyn's card is future proofed.

I agree and we have an example of this now I believe. Sabine has the card that gives her Arm 2 for the round but also gains Detonate 2 until the end of the game. The card explicitly calls out until end of the game.

So with rebellious, I would expect if they intended the ability to gain a suppression to actually be per round, the card itself would say rebellious is gained until the end of the game. As it does not, you should expect to lose it and any benefits after the round. Losing it thus prevents the "per round" wording applying beyond the current round.

So why the "per round" at all? If we consider the alternative wording:

"Once this round" would be problematic if a card has "until the end of the game" for the rebellious effect. As you could argue you can only use it this round even though the keyword remains until end of game (we're into the, is that a direct contradiction in wording, territory)

The other way to word it would be dropping the phrase altogether.

Quote

Rebellious : Jyn Erso gains Charge . Once  per  round When an enemy unit at range 1-2 and in line   of  sight of Jyn Erso activates, before it performs its Rally  step, Jyn Erso may gain 1 suppression token to either  perform an attack against that unit or to perform  a  free move  action   .

However, we have the reverse problem now. There would appear to be no limitation on its effects applying multiple times. That would then suggest you could gain a suppression, attack a unit, then later in the same round gain a suppression and move, gain a suppression and move etc.

So the once per round phrasing may be required to limit you to using this ability once in the same round. Whilst also allowing for the fact it may be an effect that applies _just_ for this round or until the end of the game depending on whether it's gained via a command card that does or does not that state "until end of game" or as permanent unit ability.

I get the feeling regardless of how this one was worded, what the RRG really needs is a couple of paragraphs of sample scenarios that explicitly show you can do this and then this and that, but you cannot do this and that.

I saw a post somewhere that Alex Davey actually replied that the ability is only for that round

There is a difference between once per round and only for that round. One means it can only be used one time in the current round, while the other means it can be used any amount of times but only in the current round. I don't understand the issue with this yet.

Jyn Erso gains Charge. Once per round, when an enemy unit at range 1-2 and in line of sight of Jyn Erso activates, before it performs its Rally step, Jyn Erso may gain 1 suppression token to either perform an attack against that unit or to perform a free move action.

Let's break it down...

Jyn Erso Gains Charge... Ok, apparently she gains Charge.

Once per round.... Only one time in the current round.

... when an enemy unit at range 1-2 and in line of sight of Jyn Erso activates, before it performs its Rally step, Jyn Erso may gain 1 suppression token to either perform an attack against that unit or to perform a free move action.

Ok.. exactly that.

What's the problem with the misunderstanding!? Nothing is worded incorrect or odd. It mainly means you can't do that over and over again with every unit in range 1-2, only just one of them if applies.

Because per means each

4 hours ago, metlfan said:

Because per means each

Yes, per each round that the card is active. Which is one round.

Here we go again I see, this time I'm not emailing FFG.

Anyway, remember that Bossk command card

Merciless Munitions

The last part of the text is "Do not discard this card from play." Same with Sabine Wrens command card.

Meaning it's effects may carry on; however at the end of both players round literally all other command cards are discarded and effects instantaneously end; while discard wise Standing orders isn't discarded but it's effects do end at end of round.

Beyond the double sided word play, when it comes down to it... you can only use the card effect once and in only that round. If I'm wrong please educate me with FFG saying something different.

i did email FFG on this and her ability goes away at the end of the round period the once per round doesn't matter.

They do indeed go away at the end of the round. Command card effects only last the round they are played.

Nice, good job.