1 hour ago, AradonTemplar said:

I keep trying to make it work with Fushicho in Phoenix. Sometimes it's good, sometimes it's not so good. But a worthy effort! Gonna keep testing and maybe switch to another splash, though.

Even if you're player 2, good chance of getting that bonus fate. Just, going all in on what is essentially a large beatstick usually makes yourself vulernable to shenanigans and puts the ball in the opponent's court to take the round away with. Still, now that we have Defend Your Honor, this isn't bad. Odds of him getting double for-shamed go down significantly. Just tread cautiously with him.

Old5R certainly rewarded raw stats more than New5R does and beatsticks in general are not great. And we haven't seen many cards that are pushing the straight up fate/stat value plays. Wandering Ronin was the first attempt, but very bad. The Scorpion guy in their clan pack is solid, and now there is Aranat which is awesome, IMO.

The problem with comparing Fushicho to Aranat is that although they are costed and stated the same, and both ultimately generate fate advantage when you can maximize their abilities, they are utilized very differently.

Aranat is just straight up raw fate advantage. Even if you're not playing with Shiro Shinjo (which you should not be doing if you're running Aranat) and your opponent decides to flip all their provinces, you get 7 fate worth of card. Aranat's power diminishes as more provinces are revealed and the game goes longer, going down to the baseline of good Charge threat.

Fushicho is going in the opposite direction and gets better as the game progresses because you end up with more characters in your discard, so you have better selection and more fate to work with when purchasing Fuschicho. At the ceiling Fuschicho gets you a potential 12 fate worth of value for 6 fate.......at least until we see more highly costed Phoenix characters. And as you get more Phoenix characters with more varied utility, the improved selection of Fushicho in the late game can be amazing. It's jut problematic that you have to either wait for any extra invested fate on Fuschicho to drop off or not put any extra fate and that is a difficult line of play to navigate investing 6 fate for something that wont stick around and the top end value being determined by what you get from the discard

Aranat gets you 11 fate worth value for 6 fate at the ceiling if your opponent decides not to reveal any provinces and gives you a 6/6 beatstick that is lasting 5 additional turns, barring any CB5F or WotCb, shenanigans. The real power of Aranat is that it's just straightforward stats/fate value and the pressure of the long game decision it places on your opponent. The choice is between getting a 6/6 with one additional fate on it and a "fully operational Death Star" aka Shiro Shinjo generating 10 fate on turn 2, or a 6/6 with 5 fate on it that is going to help you stabilize your board and ultimately get to that late game maybe a turn later is a difficult one for an opponent to make.

The general rule is that you want to take decisions away from your opponent, but, this one is more of a "rock and a hard place" type of decision so it would be one I wouldn't mind putting on the opponent right out of the gate. Again, the later the game goes, the less valuable Aranat is, outside of a Charge, which is still really good value.

Ultimately I feel Aranat is for the aggressive Unicorn that wants to play out of Shiro Shinjo and then leans on your opponent with superior fate advantage to close things out. Something like:

Mulligan everything except for Aranat

If Aranat doesn't show, play cheap characters, and or characters that reveal your opponent's provinces.

Activate Shiro Shinjo ASAP and then grind with big bodies until your opponent folds to the sustained fate advantage.

I'm not sure Aranat is leashed to Shiro Shinjo. All the points made so far apply to any box, it's just that Aranat makes Shiro Shinjo more playable. Because, honestly, I'd pay 3 gold a turn for a shot at another conflict, and boy, it'd be nice to have full knowledge of trap cards the entire time (or a huge mega deer.)

What's surprising to me is everyone not discussing Warriors of the Wind. The more I think of uses for it, the more I think that card is on the train to broken town.

The problem with running Aranat out of something other than Shiro Shinjo is that it loses a lot of its value.

A 6/6 with 5 fate on it is good, but, if you don't have the threat of being able to increase your fate production you ultimately do end up behind, even if you did just get 11 fate worth of a character for 6 fate cost.

The other Unicorn strongholds abilities are keyed to the Cavalry trait, and HMT is doubly focused because it wants you to swarm. Dropping a lot on one guy that is just stats and has no real way to interact with the rest of the deck is a bad idea.

Playing Aranat outside of Shiro Shinjo does not look like a good idea. Of course it's only been a day and maybe there is a build with HMT that could work, but, it would have to be centered around Aranat and that is generally a weak strategy when deck building, unless you have a way to get to the character you need, which Aranat does not have going for him.

That being said, I am that certain kind of crazy that is already working on an Aranat deck out of HMT. Lol

25 minutes ago, Ishi Tonu said:

The problem with running Aranat out of something other than Shiro Shinjo is that it loses a lot of its value.

A 6/6 with 5 fate on it is good, but, if you don't have the threat of being able to increase your fate production you ultimately do end up behind, even if you did just get 11 fate worth of a character for 6 fate cost.

The other Unicorn strongholds abilities are keyed to the Cavalry trait, and HMT is doubly focused because it wants you to swarm. Dropping a lot on one guy that is just stats and has no real way to interact with the rest of the deck is a bad idea.

Playing Aranat outside of Shiro Shinjo does not look like a good idea. Of course it's only been a day and maybe there is a build with HMT that could work, but, it would have to be centered around Aranat and that is generally a weak strategy when deck building, unless you have a way to get to the character you need, which Aranat does not have going for him.

That being said, I am that certain kind of crazy that is already working on an Aranat deck out of HMT. Lol

On the other hand, as an opponent do I not always flip no province? Magistrates Station and other action at any time provinces are the only exception. But even flipping Shameful means they get to choose if they can beat Shameful this attack and tells them info about where my Upholding might be.

25 minutes ago, HamHamJ2 said:

On the other hand, as an opponent do I not always flip no province? Magistrates Station and other action at any time provinces are the only exception. But even flipping Shameful means they get to choose if they can beat Shameful this attack and tells them info about where my Upholding might be.

Sure there are some provinces that you want to flip, which is why Aranat is best, and likely should only be run out of Shiro Shinjo because face up provinces brings the fate advantage to bear on your opponent and changes the equation on how valuable it is to reveal that province. When there is no consequence on the other side then revealing provinces, Aranat loses a lot of it's effectiveness.

Off Shiro Shinjo, Aranat is an effective tool to help enable the strength of Shiro Shinjo. In HMT, Aranat becomes a less than optimal as you lose out on the power of the stronghold because your opponent's are not worried about you gaining a fate advantage, so you will end up getting less fate value from Aranat.

If there are enough quality cards outside of Shiro Sinjo that reward Unicorn for the number of face up provinces, then that might be something your can try to work to your advantage. Gain province knowledge, and then power up Daiyu for example. It might turn out to be easier to facilitate these kinds of cards out of HMT because your opponent is not worried about giving you a fate advantage. Passing on Shiro Shinjo when you are pursing a face up province theme, seems like a mistake to me.

35 minutes ago, Ishi Tonu said:

Sure there are some provinces that you want to flip, which is why Aranat is best, and likely should only be run out of Shiro Shinjo because face up provinces brings the fate advantage to bear on your opponent and changes the equation on how valuable it is to reveal that province. When there is no consequence on the other side then revealing provinces, Aranat loses a lot of it's effectiveness.

Off Shiro Shinjo, Aranat is an effective tool to help enable the strength of Shiro Shinjo. In HMT, Aranat becomes a less than optimal as you lose out on the power of the stronghold because your opponent's are not worried about you gaining a fate advantage, so you will end up getting less fate value from Aranat.

If there are enough quality cards outside of Shiro Sinjo that reward Unicorn for the number of face up provinces, then that might be something your can try to work to your advantage. Gain province knowledge, and then power up Daiyu for example. It might turn out to be easier to facilitate these kinds of cards out of HMT because your opponent is not worried about giving you a fate advantage. Passing on Shiro Shinjo when you are pursing a face up province theme, seems like a mistake to me.

You may be underestimating the inherent power of flipping provinces. They could flip the most unfarmable provinces possible and the amount of information that gives you is still huge. Being able to plan around the province you are attacking is a big advantage.

I completely respect the power of flipping provinces. There is simply less upside to jamming Aranat in HMT than there is when running it out of Shiro Shinjo.