It's been a while and we've gotten a bunch of new cards.. But mostly what I'm curious of is what everyone thinks Lion's primary identity is. It originally seemed like bushi swarming with their stronghold and a few commanders, but over time Unicorn took over that aspect and did it far better while Lion has pushed out into various other things. As it is the only real unique mechanics to Lion are graveyard manipulation with their Shugenja and their "win more" abilities with winning in conflicts (even if without the ability to actually win them as well).

I'm surprised we've got courtier specific cards but mostly nothing for Bushi. If Lion is meant to do offensive military victories it doesn't do it well so it'd be interesting to see Lion tactics or orders that would allow for them to do interesting things with their Bushi.

Lion has a couple of cards now relying on having higher honour. Unfortunately we aren’t necessarily the best clan at getting higher honour now. Or have particularly good card draw, to offset bidding low. So that features more as a handicap than an advantage. Likewise our gain from offensive military victory condition cards. Again we have limitations in that area, so is more handicap than playstyle.

We do have potential as duelists though. And it may be viable moving forward to lean into duelling to bow opponents. We have other bow effects, that could work with that as well. Maybe even taking cards like policy debate as our RL and using spies at court, we could pressure honour and hand size. With keeper of earth, instead of having any strengths, we could drag our opponents down to our level and beat them there.

So back in the time before this time, Lion had some themes that showed up almost constantly. these included such great thing as:

• Military honor switch (I think this is kinda the design goal for them in this current iteration )
• Ancestor shennanagargles (I personally like how the ancestor stuff is working but a little more would help.)
• Honor is banana peel...? No, sorry! Stronger than steel! (Usually something based on personal honor which isn't their mechanic anymore since glory more or less replaced it and that's a phoenix thing.)
• Tacticians! Woo! (Don't really exist... but we have similar stuff that doesn't really feel the same. Tactician gave Lion a viable midrange feel with some control elements.)
• And last but not least, Aggro super swarm (Cheap dudes or dudes that can be tricked out super fast and have a big impact. I remember when Lion could take a province before dynasty phase. I miss those wonderful days.)

I would love to see any of these themes explored more. Because Lion got almost no meaningful theme right now and it makes me wonder about the future of Rokugan if the Lion are this much of a mess about what they do.

I feel that the lack of Tacticians was one of the most significant changes to Lion in this new version. I was thinking maybe you could make Tactician a keyword- "Action: During a conflict discard a card from your hand. Give this character +X military skill where X is equal to the discarded card's fate cost."

But since cards seem to usually cost less for more benefit (and costs honor) this would probably be inefficient and make characters cost more fate themselves.

7 hours ago, HirumaShigure said:

I feel that the lack of Tacticians was one of the most significant changes to Lion in this new version. I was thinking maybe you could make Tactician a keyword- "Action: During a conflict discard a card from your hand. Give this character +X military skill where X is equal to the discarded card's fate cost."

But since cards seem to usually cost less for more benefit (and costs honor) this would probably be inefficient and make characters cost more fate themselves.

With the tie in between card draw, and honour, that could leave tacticians draining honour to stay active. It might be good if the comander(that trait seems comparable to tacticians in this version) allowed card draw, to offset bidding.

I would prefer to see draw+discard as a theme for tacticians, that offer more choices when in play. I don't think they need a keyword, though. Would rather see them each have different strategies. I'm actually pretty happy with where tacticians are at right now. Some offer powerful military bonuses, some offer better card draw, just need to see some more at various costs. I wouldn't mind seeing more 'if you control a tactician, X' effects.

Years ago, when the game first began, lion were not about swarm. They were fast, hit hard with lots of pumps and efficient characters. As lion and unicorn lost their major keywords, and the flow doesn’t easily allow for swarm in the same way they did it before, lion is missing something. I really feel that it would be nice if they went back to efficiency Characters with honor gain backup. I think the exclusion of traits is good though. That means less remembering a rule and more printed on card effects. Still would require a change but not a bad one I would think. I think there does need to be more trait driven cards that are good for lion. Like there are for Shugenja and Monks...

At least we are getting some new Bushi specific cards. A perfect cut is wonderful for Lion!

I agree. I actually like the anti-holding mechanic of the new lion as well. It isn’t perfect but it is somewhat thematic... now, bring on Hiroru.