From the "Cover" section of the rules on p.25:

Quote

Determine Cover: If at least half of all of the defender’s minis are obscured, that unit has cover.

Are there exceptions to this rule when some of the minis in the defending unit are not in LoS of any attacker? Specific example attached. Based on my reading of the rules, the blue unit would have cover but this doesn't make a ton of sense to me because the one mini that can receive wounds is out in the open. Thanks!

2 hours ago, Clark2000 said:

From the "Cover" section of the rules on p.25:

Are there exceptions to this rule when some of the minis in the defending unit are not in LoS of any attacker? Specific example attached. Based on my reading of the rules, the blue unit would have cover but this doesn't make a ton of sense to me because the one mini that can receive wounds is out in the open. Thanks!

In that example the unit will have cover. The rules for cover doesn't make a lot of sense from a reality point of view, but are made as simple as they could to avoid confusion taking into account the infinite different cases that could arouse in this kind of game.

Yes the unit has cover. The game assumes that the attacker's massed blaster fire is peppering the whole area of the target unit, thus several hits would be absorbed by the building.

The reason for this is we don't attach individual models we attach units. The unit has at least 1/2 of the models in cover so the unit is in cover.

Thanks for the replies!

On 2/4/2019 at 11:18 AM, Lemmiwinks86 said:

The rules for cover doesn't make a lot of sense from a reality point of view

Agree - I guess I should stop attempting to rationalize the rules for myself as this seems to be the root of my confusion.

On 2/4/2019 at 12:49 PM, KommanderKeldoth said:

Yes the unit has cover. The game assumes that the attacker's massed blaster fire is peppering the whole area of the target unit, thus several hits would be absorbed by the building.

I see what you're saying, but my attempts to reason about this rule by comparing to reality lead me to a different conclusion (which, as I said above, is probably the fatal flaw in my desire to rationalize the rules). If the attacking unit can't see any of the models behind the building, why would they attempt to pepper them with fire in the first place? A sensible attacker would focus fire on the visible members of the defending unit and might not even know that the unseen members are there at all. However, I completely agree with you in scenarios where some of the models are only partially visible rather than completely out of view.

59 minutes ago, Winged Gundark said:

The reason for this is we don't attach individual models we attach units. The unit has at least 1/2 of the models in cover so the unit is in cover.

I agree and I think we share a mutual understanding of the mechanics. My desire to rationalize the rules makes this all just seem odd - only the visible models can receive wounds so it seems unreasonable that the visible models benefit from the "cover" that the unseen models are behind. I'd expect the attacking unit to focus fire on only the visible models and not attempt to shoot the unseen models through the wall which blocks line of sight to them in the first place.

Yeah I understand where you're coming from. They might end up fiddling with it down the line. I think it's partially a matter of gameplay>fluff. They probably don't want it to be too easy to exploit line of sight to negate unit cover

3 hours ago, Clark2000 said:

I see what you're saying, but my attempts to reason about this rule by comparing to reality lead me to a different conclusion (which, as I said above, is probably the fatal flaw in my desire to rationalize the rules). If the attacking unit can't see any of the models behind the building, why would they attempt to pepper them with fire in the first place? A sensible attacker would focus fire on the visible members of the defending unit and might not even know that the unseen members are there at all.

...

Here is a place I quite like the combination of efficiency and elegance in Legion's rules...

What you describe is true... if the positions of the miniatures represented the exact snapshot of position and posture for every member of a unit throughout the entire 5-15 minutes that a round in Legion is supposed to represent.

However we know that if these little plastic toys were real men, women, and aliens of assorted genders... then they would be moving, peeking around corners, hugging walls, etc.

The minis are just a placeholder approximation of a much more fuzzy area of probable locations, which is in turn used to drive the inputs into another fuzzy system which approximates a range of the most probable outcomes for the actual combat.

...

I mean, probable... for space wizards with lazer swords facing off against Nazis in medieval armor! XD

2 minutes ago, CaptainRocket said:

I mean, probable... for space wizards with lazer swords facing off against Nazis in medieval armor! XD

2

Excellent point and a good reminder to focus on having fun and not to take all this too seriously

1 hour ago, CaptainRocket said:

What you describe is true... if the positions of the miniatures represented the exact snapshot of position and posture for every member of a unit throughout the entire 5-15 minutes that a round in Legion is supposed to represent.

I always envisioned a round lasting only like 5 to 10 seconds based on how far things move.

Then again speeder units laugh in the face of realistic distance moved...

18 minutes ago, KommanderKeldoth said:

I always envisioned a round lasting only like 5 to 10 seconds based on how far things move.

Then again speeder units laugh in the face of realistic distance moved...

Yeah squad and soldier scale games end up laying fast and loose with both time and distance. Scale is usually compressed so that individual elements are usually ridiculously large / move ridiculously slow if you tried to take them literally (what's really fun is how vertical scale is usually even more exaggerated)! Flames of War is notorious for radically different scales for infantry and armor speeds in the same game...

I try to map time scale to command decisions made per game time element (rounds in Legion) rather than the physical models.

Pretending Legion is mostly WWII squad combat with lazer monks and lunar teddybears added for flavor, you can see engagements that are usually 3-6 hours, but with all the downtime compressed out for playability and 'hollywood epic' feel. This leaves about 2-3 hours of 'mostly action', split over 6 rounds. That maps pretty well to the idea of you can maneuver bit, engage with another unit for a few rounds, maybe get a bit more movement to a new goal or your original goal - which when being shot at (or running the risk thereof) is gonna take a couple hours.

3 hours ago, CaptainRocket said:

Yeah squad and soldier scale games end up laying fast and loose with both time and distance. Scale is usually compressed so that individual elements are usually ridiculously large / move ridiculously slow if you tried to take them literally (what's really fun is how vertical scale is usually even more exaggerated)! Flames of War is notorious for radically different scales for infantry and armor speeds in the same game...

I try to map time scale to command decisions made per game time element (rounds in Legion) rather than the physical models.

Pretending Legion is mostly WWII squad combat with lazer monks and lunar teddybears added for flavor, you can see engagements that are usually 3-6 hours, but with all the downtime compressed out for playability and 'hollywood epic' feel. This leaves about 2-3 hours of 'mostly action', split over 6 rounds. That maps pretty well to the idea of you can maneuver bit, engage with another unit for a few rounds, maybe get a bit more movement to a new goal or your original goal - which when being shot at (or running the risk thereof) is gonna take a couple hours.

I always pictured Legion's six rounds as the last ditch push at the end of an hours long engagement. Basically the last minute or so of the battle of Scarif. Or like fast and furious ambush operation by the Rebels or the Empire.