4 hours ago, King_Balrog said:

I agree; it is also exactly what they have been doing.

Chapter 1) sabs/vs royal guard --> Chapter 2) nerfed royals/sabs and replaced the meta with more varied squads (trooper lists, leia/luke, etc.) until Jabba's Realm --> Chapter 3) Scum hunters overtakes the meta especially when IG-88 obtained a fix --> Chapter 4) Vader, Chewie, and Han fixes adds more variety and ways for the meta to combat Scum Hunters (During this time we probably had the most balanced meta thus far) --> Chapter 5) Specter Cell --> more varied squads to combat specter cell --> The next game changing Meta unless IA dies- ( we are beginning to run out of content- IMO )

It looks like we have had 5 "chapters" of Meta. As long as IA "lives" each chapter will counter the one before it.

Also out of curiosity: should the sabs and royal guard be de-nerfed thanks to the healthiness of the Meta- aside from Specter Cell? or are they still too broken?

Haven't they been punished enough? Should we invite them back in to play again?

At French nationals a guy played eSabs against my SC... It's been such a pain in the neck!

4 hours ago, King_Balrog said:

I agree; it is also exactly what they have been doing.

Chapter 1) sabs/vs royal guard --> Chapter 2) nerfed royals/sabs and replaced the meta with more varied squads (trooper lists, leia/luke, etc.) until Jabba's Realm --> Chapter 3) Scum hunters overtakes the meta especially when IG-88 obtained a fix --> Chapter 4) Vader, Chewie, and Han fixes adds more variety and ways for the meta to combat Scum Hunters (During this time we probably had the most balanced meta thus far) --> Chapter 5) Specter Cell --> more varied squads to combat specter cell --> The next game changing Meta unless IA dies- ( we are beginning to run out of content- IMO )

It looks like we have had 5 "chapters" of Meta. As long as IA "lives" each chapter will counter the one before it.

Also out of curiosity: should the sabs and royal guard be de-nerfed thanks to the healthiness of the Meta- aside from Specter Cell? or are they still too broken?

Haven't they been punished enough? Should we invite them back in to play again?

At French nationals a guy played eSabs against my SC... It's been such a pain in the neck!

eSabs are in a slightly better spot but they still need a surge for damage imo, or a reroll. I'd give royal guards back their surges, but keep the modified non-guardian only block distribution, the surges are what really killed them long term I think. Really FFG just needs to give Imperial Assault a holocron like Destiny has and not be afraid to change text on cards without feeling like they have to release new cards with the text on them.

16 minutes ago, TheWelcomeMat88 said:

eSabs are in a slightly better spot but they still need a surge for damage imo, or a reroll. I'd give royal guards back their surges, but keep the modified non-guardian only block distribution, the surges are what really killed them long term I think. Really FFG just needs to give Imperial Assault a holocron like Destiny has and not be afraid to change text on cards without feeling like they have to release new cards with the text on them.

We don't mind to buy packs of next wave and get fixed cards for old stuff inside... That's an option.

6 hours ago, King_Balrog said:

Also out of curiosity: should the sabs and royal guard be de-nerfed thanks to the healthiness of the Meta- aside from Specter Cell? or are they still too broken?

Haven't they been punished enough? Should we invite them back in to play again?

It's not that eSabs and RGs are becoming more weak and in need of more power, it's that SC is broken imo and is in need of a nerf

The meta is definitely not in a healthy state at the moment and I feel that trying to judge all figures using SC's power curve can be misleading

On 2/15/2019 at 4:08 PM, ricope said:

It's not that eSabs and RGs are becoming more weak and in need of more power, it's that SC is broken imo and is in need of a nerf

The meta is definitely not in a healthy state at the moment and I feel that trying to judge all figures using SC's power curve can be misleading

Sure. I can agree on that. Even so do you think these units are still OP? No one seems to use them anymore and I believe they would still be viable with their earlier stats. They have fallen victim to an Errata that I believe may no longer be necessary due to the competition in each faction. Some units (Vader, Chewie, Han, IG-88) have been buffed, but, Royal guards/Sabs are the only units to receive a negative Errata. You guys are calling for the same with Specter Cell (Debuff). I'm asking if they are on the same level of being OP.

The term "Healthiness" was meant for the days just before Specter Cell arrived on the scene. (Chapter 4 in my post above)

37 minutes ago, King_Balrog said:

Sure. I can agree on that. Even so do you think these units are still OP? No one seems to use them anymore and I believe they would still be viable with their earlier stats. They have fallen victim to an Errata that I believe may no longer be necessary due to the competition in each faction. They are the only units to receive a negative Errata. You guys are calling for the same with Specter Cell. I'm asking if they are on the same level of being OP.

The term "Healthiness" was meant for the days just before Specter Cell arrived on the scene. (Chapter 4 in my post above)

"OP" is relative

12 hours ago, King_Balrog said:

unless    IA  dies- ( we are beginning to run out of cont  ent- IMO     )    

I know many people think this, but Star Wars is infinite. There’s so much content that just flat out isn’t explored by IA. Even in the Galactic Civil War era, so much exists that would be a good addition to the game. I know Rebels has already been done, but there were some characters (namely Rex) who I think would be really cool to add to the game and play with.

Sadly, it seems as though interest in IA is diminishing. Although many are against it, I think an IA 2.0 would be beneficial to the game, just not in the way most think.

The current game needs very little work, as is, other than a few minor tweaks. What would really make this version stand out would be the inclusion of Prequel and Sequel content. Sure it’d be odd for the first few rotations, but it would add so much content to the game: clones, droids, First Order, Resistance heroes. We already have one character (Luke) with multiple forms, so figures like Obi-Wan or Ahsoka wouldn’t be any different. I think this would really diversify the meta for the better.

14 hours ago, King_Balrog said:

Also out of curiosity: should the sabs and royal guard be de-nerfed thanks to the healthiness of the Meta- aside from Specter Cell? or are they still too broken?

If my math is right, prenerf-RG has about 60% chance to do 1 dmg to Ezra. Ezra has like 65% chance to do 5 dmg to a RG with the extra block. (Neither number includes Ezra's potential offensive or defensive reroll, so the numbers likely skew even further in that direction)

The guards have a lot of health so it might take awhile, but I don't think it would be close. (Granted, I wasn't around for the 4x4 so maybe I'm missing something)

Although I love playing eSabs and often feel they are underwhelming, Blast 2 isn’t a good idea to bring back. They sorely miss a reroll like fx the eRTs have thou.

RGs are lacking, but no more then Wookies or other similar figures.

I’m not convinced it’s worth trying to upgrade all kinda figures. Unless FFG officially stops producing new content. Then it would be a great community project to relive the old or underplayed goodies.

8 hours ago, Doowa said:

Although I love playing eSabs and often feel they are underwhelming, Blast 2 isn’t a good idea to bring back. They sorely miss a reroll like fx the eRTs have thou.

RGs are lacking, but no more then Wookies or other similar figures.

I’m not convinced it’s worth trying to upgrade all kinda figures. Unless FFG officially stops producing new content. Then it would be a great community project to relive the old or underplayed goodies.

My arguement is that Royal Guards and Sabs are now never used, but, the Meta has power creeped so much that they could return to their original strength and maybe see some play.

How many units can deal 7 damage in a turn? Elite Sabs would have to be protected, but, could help contend with SC. Royal Guards are next to useless now and it is sad they lost their teeth and no longer see play at all.

I actually think you'd need to buff the RG past what they were pre-nerf for me to even consider bringing them in a competitive match. Pre-nerf they're essentially lower heath wookiee warriors.

Now, add a red die to the Elite's attack pool and we're talking.

It looks like some folks in here should take a look at what we've been doing with fixes lately . In particular, eSabs are reworked to do some fun things with power tokens & Beneficial conditions!

Also, my recommendation for an SC nerf (and the related problem of Rebel Graffiti) . I know some of you guys have already had your fill of SC and want to see it nerfed into the ground. But I think it can be tweaked so that the benefits of the card doesn't completely overpower non-SC opponents. If we can bring it back in line with Vader/Palp/Thrawn and Scum Hunters, then we can work towards diversifying the meta with fixing older and/or underpowered deployments.

maybe just increase cost of the SC card by one?

57 minutes ago, Jarema said:

maybe just increase cost of the SC card by one?

I don't think that's enough, personally. For most people it'll basically mean dropping Extra Armor or Motivation, whichever they'd taken. OK, NBD. You'd still always, always take SC.

The SC card gives an extra short-move-plus-attack per turn, and (assuming each figure in the list is attacked twice per game, which seems low) effectively an extra 12 Health spread among the list. A 12-Health figure with a decent attack would be worth at least five or six points, and that's ignoring the fact SC improves every attack made by other models as well.

Seriously, imagine Spectre Cell looked like this instead:

I reckon that card would get pretty serious consideration, wouldn't it? Speed is the only real drawback, it's hard to translate that from the SC ability to a figure.

Now, alright, SC isn't a figure; but that comes with advantages (the SC card can't be defeated, the attack can be used by any figure in any position) and disadvantages (the SC card can't be used to take objectives or interact), and you could argue over whether blocks being affected by Pierce where Health isn't is more or less influential than the likelihood of needing more than two attacks to defeat Kanan or Zeb, and... OK, it's not a completely simple comparison, but it's not wildly wrong either.

I reckon the real-world SC is worth a solid 6 points ( definitely more than 2), so if I'm even close to right about that, Spectre Cell lists are worth 44 where every other list is worth 40. No wonder they do so well.

(And, yet again, SC being OP is only one reason among many it needs to be nerfed).

ok, I think you may be right, or at least close to it (maybe SC is worth 5 points, not 6). But getting its cost up to 3 would be first step. It would definitely weaken SC list by blocking its access to Motivation or Doubt

2 hours ago, Jarema said:

ok, I think you may be right, or at least close to it (maybe SC is worth 5 points, not 6). But getting its cost up to 3 would be first step. It would definitely weaken SC list by blocking its access to Motivation or Doubt

I remember there was an analysis being done on SC that in a vacuum, SC is a card worth ~12 points that's priced at 2 points, so I don't think bumping by only 1 is anywhere close enough

"in a vacuum" because the Spectres are clearly designed with SC in mind, without SC the Spectres immediately loses their tier-S+ status

Sorry for replying for a thread that is already a bit old, but wouldn't a decent fix also be to change the exhaust clause to a deplete clause? (The extra attack part).

You would lose the static benefits once you make use of the card, and you only get , 1 bonus attack, but it would make it very strategic when to use it.

Exactly how they also did with Doubt.