Warhammer00 said:

Heroes don'r trigger Defense Lasers. Maybe it'll be better to not transport 'em?

HtH

L

Is Mortarion's special ability active for the whole battle, or just used at the beginning?

Example: After an iteration of a battle including Mortarion, the Imperial player has one or more units with just 1 point of damage left. Are those units immediately eliminated? Or do you only eliminate such Imperial units at the beginning of the battle if such are present?

All good questions , I've only played one game so far and we got caught out witht he Traitor's starting hand of cards , he had 9 at the start !

We should have shuffled the port landings and pods intot he deck , we did that , but then drew out all the starting cards

Come on FFG we need soem answers , who is the attacker in a co existance battle ??

Keithandor said:

Two points beats one point, Imperial is the attacker (two places in the rules mention Imp as attacker, one place mentions Traitor as att) .

Dam said:

Well I can't argue with your logic

I actually heard a podcast today that had an interview with the designer and he mentioned something about the Imperial side being the attacker in co existance battles , so that's how we'll play it.

Somthing about the imperial army attacking traitor units and so on.

I dunno , I though the traitors would have the jump on them be the attacker , but then againt he defender gets to play their cards first.

confused...

Over at BGG you can download a user made reference sheet with what hero is alligned with what forces and their abilities.

I dont have the game yet so can someone tell me if the abilities are as written here, or are clarified better in the official rules? If so it seems that they do need more detail on exactly what happens. Khan's ability seems to have the most holes. Does it lay down an activation marker? Can it be done to a coexistence battle, as the Imperial player is defined as attacking? Should we just assume that it follows the same rules (apart from bypassing crevases) as a flying unit supporting a battle?

Of course, if the official rules for the heroes in the game (which I havent seen yet) are clear on these matters, then all good.

Ok, I just saw that I'm completely wrong.

Okay, move along, nothing to see here!

Actually one thing regarding the 'Flying Units Joining Battles' and how it relates to Khan's ability, can he spend just one point going over crevases and through enemy territories like a flying unit using this rule could?

**EDIT** Forgive the double post, I didnt see the edit button until just now.

Another question.

Would the Thunderhawk Flight's ability to count a fortification it is attacking as being breached remove a fortification counter or just reduce the damage that the counter blocks?

It implies the latter as the fortification doesnt become breached, it is just counted as being breached, but it doesnt explicitly state it.

I can see that tripping up some people.

Ok, another one from BGG.

Can a unit that has been dropped off by a Thunderhawk Flight in an unactivated area us the same order that allowed the Thunderhawk to move to make a further move action of its own?

Only as long as they are going to move into a designated area declared by the order card. Otherwise, no.

Thunderhawks only treat fortifications as breached when they are part of the combat. They do not remove any markers.

Q: Are you allowed to peak at your Orders (the ones on top of the pile) on the Strategic Map?

Regarding Thunderhawk Bombardment and Fortification Effect:

Q. Do fortifications reduce thunderhawk bombardment damage?

Rules state that "total number of damage points is inflicted on the target area (...) according to the same rules as orbital bombardments (p. 36)". They also say that "damage from thunderhawk bombardment is part of the special effect portion of the combat iteration. This damage is not part of regular damage and cannot be reduced by shields (p. 36)".

When it comes to Fortifications effects, the rules state that "defending units in fortified areas have an advantage in battle (...) subtract 2 from total quantity of regular damage the attacker generates (...)".

So which one is to prevail?

Jerrus said:

p18: "A player may review a facedown order on the strategic map as long as it belongs to him and is the top-most order in its stack. Otherwise, players may not review order cards on the strategic map."

Quertzacoalt said:

Well, the quotes you provided are not mutually exclusive. One says that damage from a Thunderhawk Bombardment is resolved in the special effect stage and is not regular damage.

The second statement tells you what effect fortifications have on regular damage, which you get by adding the numbers on the top left of all the combat cards played this iteration together. Anything that happens in the special effects portion of the combat step is not regular damage, unless the effect specifically says so.

However, Thunderhawk bombardments follow the rules for Orbital bombardments, one of which is that fortified areas reduce bombardment damage by two (page 34, Fortifications and Orbital Bombardment). A breach will reduce that to one. Note that if a Thunderhawk is attacking then it will count as being breached.

Also, the damage from a bombardment will only be reduced if it targets a fortified AREA, not just if the defenders recieve a fortification bonus because they are on the other side of a crevase or similar effect.

Relevant quotes:

p36 Thunderhawk Bombardments: "That total number of damage points is inflicted on the units in the target area according to the same rules as orbital bombardments."

p35 Orbital Bombardments: "Recall that fortifications reduce damage from orbital bombardments (see “Fortifications and Orbital Bombardment”on page 34)."

p34 Fortifications and Orbital Bombardments: "A force inside a fortified area subtracts two points of damage from each orbital bombardment that affects it (see “Bombardment” on page 35). However, if that area is breached on any of its border segments, such damage is reduced by one rather than two points."

Propbuddha said:

I was wondering about this one as well...

Regarding traitor hero special abilities:

Mortarion, Magnus, Fulgrim, 1 nurgle chaos space marine, 1 tzeentchian chaos space marine, 1 slaaneshi chaos marine and 1 khorne thunderhawk attack an unbreached fortification held by Dorn, 2 imperial fist space marines and 1 imperial tank division.

Is the following pre-battle sequence played correctly?

1. Fulgrim special ability: Traitor player makes a corruption draw for the imperial tank division. Let’s assume that a chaos star is drawn, imperial tank division is removed and traitor tank division is added to the attacking area.
2. Magnus special ability: Traitor player draws two bombardment cards and chooses one. Let’s assume that the bombardment doesn’t cause a breach and does 5 points of damage. Because of attacking khorne thunderhawk, the fortification is considered breached and the traitor player assigns 2 damage to each imperial fist space marine (total of 4 damage).
3. Mortarion special ability: Both imperial fist space marines are eliminated.
4. Count combat rating: Traitor combat rating is 13. Loyalist combat rating is 0.
5. Draw cards: Traitor player draws 7 combat cards and 2 hero cards. Loyalist player draws 0 combat cards and 2 hero cards.

Regarding traitor hero special abilities:

Mortarion, Magnus, Fulgrim, 1 nurgle chaos space marine, 1 tzeentchian chaos space marine, 1 slaaneshi chaos marine and 1 khorne thunderhawk attack an unbreached fortification held by Dorn, 2 imperial fist space marines and 1 imperial tank division.

Is the following pre-battle sequence played correctly?

1. Fulgrim special ability: Traitor player makes a corruption draw for the imperial tank division. Let’s assume that a chaos star is drawn, imperial tank division is removed and traitor tank division is added to the attacking area.
2. Magnus special ability: Traitor player draws two bombardment cards and chooses one. Let’s assume that the bombardment doesn’t cause a breach and does 5 points of damage. Because of attacking khorne thunderhawk, the fortification is considered breached and the traitor player assigns 2 damage to each imperial fist space marine (total of 4 damage).
3. Mortarion special ability: Both imperial fist space marines are eliminated.
4. Count combat rating: Traitor combat rating is 13. Loyalist combat rating is 0.
5. Draw cards: Traitor player draws 7 combat cards and 2 hero cards. Loyalist player draws 0 combat cards and 2 hero cards.

I believe that is pretty much correct. The timing does make a difference. Fulgrim's and Mortarion's abilities may reduce the total number of ranks the Imperial player has, increasing the risk of Magnus' ability doing exess damage to Traitor units. I think as the player controlling those heroes, if there are simultaneous hero abilities you can choose which is resolved first.

I've got to say that I am confused as to the timing of Dorn's ability.

If there were no Thunderhawks, would Magnus' ability prevent Dorn's if it produced a breach? Or does Dorn's ability kick in first? He doesnt care if a breach occurs during combat as his bonus lasts till the end of the combat, so a breach caused by a special action on a combat card would not reduce the rank of the Imperial Fists. The question is if Dorn's ability is applied before Magnus' or not.

Magnus' ability happens at the start of combat, however Dorn's ability makes Imperial Fist marines rank 4 for the entire combat, so does that mean that they are already rank 4 when resolving Magnus' ability?

Do Thunderhawks counteract Dorn's ability? I'm inclined to believe that they do, but I want to ask anyway. Do you check the condition of Dorn's ability before or after the flying unit makes the border they are fight accross count as breached?

- Can Thunderhawks pick up other Thunderhawks? (they are smaller than titans, but then again ....)
- Can Thunderhawk executing a movement order leave the destination area during its movement (assuming that it has enough movement to return to the destination area)?

Tanan said:

Not sure. Depends on how you interpret "units with the flying transport special ability can transport other units". 'Other units' may mean units without the flying transport special rule.

Is this so you can off a thunderhawk at a location that isnt a destination area and thus be able to move it later on? Personally, if I was your opponent I definately would frown on this, and would defininately not enjoy the game if you were to try and use such a loophole. Doing that with a normal unit is fine, but the potential for abuse by doing it with a thunderhawk is too high.

I'm glad you brought it up though so it can be clarified when a FAQ comes out.

Tanan said:

If it has enough movement points I do not see why not. Nothing in the rules say that units must take the most direct route to their destination. The rules just talk about 'where it ends it movement', not 'once it reaches the destination area'.