problem is, demand will be so low, they never will do it. Now listen :
Asmodee Germany did not buy the license for the second wave of the Minis ( those after the command units 9 month later) because the selling of the first wave was so bad.
not necessary to say , we got a hundred of GW shops , one in every city of 50k + inhabitants, which run well since the 90s. So there is definitely demand for a good fantasy tabletop that takes the gap warhammer has left
FFG is rubbing some salt in the wound with their new article today.
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2019/1/30/the-future-of-organized-play/
The last two paragraphs:
We are constantly striving to improve the ways we communicate with both stores and players, and our improved communication will be a major point of emphasis throughout 2019. Many of the changes discussed in this article are the result of feedback we've received, and we want to keep that communication flowing.
Expect to see more engagement and interaction from us in 2019 and beyond, as we'll be expanding our ways to connect with both players and stores.
We also want to hear from you! You can share your feedback through our FFG Organized Play Feedback Form , or you can reach out to us via Facebook or Twitter .
We're very excited about our Organized Play offerings for 2019. We have a lot of new faces on our team—and a lot of big plans.
Whether you're new to FFG Organized Play or a seasoned veteran, you'll find 2019 full of new ways to enjoy your favorite games, meet other players, and share thrilling experiences.
As a final note, we want to extend our heartfelt thanks and gratitude to all of the stores and players around the world who make our community so great!
Edited by CusmEVERYBODY SEND FEEDBACK!
I gave my feedback under Legion.
I'm not sure what to say at this point. I like that seasonal kits are supporting regular store play and do not have to be strictly tied to tournament. That's pretty telling that even in that setting, they don't think they have the support to produce Runewars kits. I know our casual play has been much better than tournament numbers.
Tempted to tell them they need lots of this and some marketing to get the games out there more in the UK, maybe someone should just say read the forums, we do sometimes say something useful, it's not just organised play its giving the games a presence and an impact in shops that's important too.
And maybe encouraging players and game shops to set up sessions together as game shops are often where players meet up to play their favourite games.
I'm thinking of exploring this once I've got some of my Genesys stuff ready to run as it could be good for boosting the game, but for any of you not working on fan projects, remember we can help the games we love too- I'm also thinking if I can juggle my plans as a creative to get some more games in too so I'm not just creating stuff (the downside of it being it can take up the time you have for playing when you're in a creative spell) - as getting other people playing helps build followings for games (for example one game I took to a games meet became someone's Christmas list game from their partner, I'd purchased it having played it at a games meet so one copy meant two follow on sales, maybe more if the chain goes back before or after that.)
So FFG doing something that helps players set up and run sessions not just shops could be a thing.
If FFG don't get their games out there well there are so many games they could get lost in the noise.
18 hours ago, Vergilius said:I'm not sure what to say at this point. I like that seasonal kits are supporting regular store play and do not have to be strictly tied to tournament. That's pretty telling that even in that setting, they don't think they have the support to produce Runewars kits. I know our casual play has been much better than tournament numbers.
Yeah that's pretty telling. This game is dead.
16 minutes ago, DivisibleByZero said:Yeah that's pretty telling. This game is dead.
It's only dead when you stop playing it.
3 minutes ago, tgall said:It's only dead when you stop playing it.
You know what I mean. No new stuff is coming out. FFG has stopped supporting it entirely. You can claim we have enough content, but games like this need long term support to remain fresh.
1 minute ago, DivisibleByZero said:You know what I mean. No new stuff is coming out. FFG has stopped supporting it entirely. You can claim we have enough content, but games like this need long term support to remain fresh.
Sure I know what you're trying to imply, I just reject it. there are a multitude of miniature war games that haven't been updated in years that people continue to play. The idea that you can't play a game because it hasn't seen an update in the last year I find kinda dumb. It just sets you up for disappointment when invariably an article is late, something doesn't ship on time or the game doesn't go where you want it to. Sure I definitely acknowledge that the lack of new content is a bummer. It's just not the only thing that makes a game.
39 minutes ago, tgall said:Sure I know what you're trying to imply, I just reject it. there are a multitude of miniature war games that haven't been updated in years that people continue to play. The idea that you can't play a game because it hasn't seen an update in the last year I find kinda dumb. It just sets you up for disappointment when invariably an article is late, something doesn't ship on time or the game doesn't go where you want it to. Sure I definitely acknowledge that the lack of new content is a bummer. It's just not the only thing that makes a game.
How are new people going to join a game that they most likely aren't going to be reprinting?
1 hour ago, DivisibleByZero said:How are new people going to join a game that they most likely aren't going to be reprinting?
You keep insinuating what FFG is going to do, no new product, no re-prints, but that may not be the case. This is their IP they can continue to do re-prints all they want, they could have new units coming in multiple or one last wave or none at all. You are possibly/probably correct, but I would suggest not burning the barn down when the cows get out. They have kept reprinting other games they own without any new content.
1 hour ago, DivisibleByZero said:How are new people going to join a game that they most likely aren't going to be reprinting?
It certainly does slow things, and in many cases the attrition rate is insurmountable, but there are a whole swath of boutique minis games out there, some whose parent companies are long dead, which continue to see regular play in many areas. Epic 40k, for example, for which official models have not been available for years, has an oddly thriving worldwide playerbase. Obviously that's partially due to its strong IP, but the fact remains that minis games exist in a weird intersection of game and hobby, so when people invest time and love into an army it can gain legs beyond its actual support.
I'm not trying to argue that the end of official support won't hurt the playerbase, but existing metas will be able to weather it to some extent.
22 minutes ago, Cusm said:You keep insinuating what FFG is going to do, no new product, no re-prints, but that may not be the case. This is their IP they can continue to do re-prints all they want, they could have new units coming in multiple or one last wave or none at all. You are possibly/probably correct, but I would suggest not burning the barn down when the cows get out. They have kept reprinting other games they own without any new content.
Sure...I am insinuating what FFG is doing. They could fix that if they would actually...you know...communicate with their players.
8 hours ago, tgall said:Sure I know what you're trying to imply, I just reject it. there are a multitude of miniature war games that haven't been updated in years that people continue to play. The idea that you can't play a game because it hasn't seen an update in the last year I find kinda dumb. It just sets you up for disappointment when invariably an article is late, something doesn't ship on time or the game doesn't go where you want it to. Sure I definitely acknowledge that the lack of new content is a bummer. It's just not the only thing that makes a game.
That's such a dumb response. Like, duh, we can play it. But the game is stagnant. Basically no one in my area ever plays. The same stock has been on the local store shelves for ages now. That's the way I'd imagine it is in the majority of places around the US and probably the world. I don't like it, but it's true as far as I can see (would love to be proven wrong, btw). It's true that some games feel vibrant and alive long after production of new content stops, but Runewars never really gained enough traction for that to be the case here plus that usually happens in other genres. There are too many minis games out there with regular, substantive updates and decent rulesets for people to get drawn to.
So yeah, enjoy the game all you like (I know I will), but it's still effectively dead/stagnant unless FFG have a secret plan to still release things.
As a general fan of FFG, not everything they do, but in general...I have not seen one important criticism raised, and that's what I'd call the exclusivity problem.
Miniature games to me tend to be funded by a smaller number of players, compared to other communities, who over-purchase games and build loyalty to certain companies. But the companies themselves, nearly all of them these days, have taken a vested interest in producing miniature games that try to lock in that loyalty by making their products somehow incompatable with other systems. That can show up as making products in weirder and weirder scales (Games Workshop's scale creep makes it hard to even use old figures with new), coming up with unique but esoteric creations so your figures can't really be used in many other games (Warmachine), and in FFG's case, dice, a scad of counters, and odd basing.
I'm not saying all these things are bad. People like bigger figures, warmachines are cool, and counters keep track of things/the bases lock together. To some degree, you can repurpose anything...such as taking the skeletons just on their round bases and using them for something else. But you're still paying for all those extra bases and counters...FFG Runewars figures were not cheap.
So, by doing that, you end up do or die. Privateer Press did...successful, whether they're doing well or not now. Obviously GW did. Corvus Belli did. In the end, however, there's more of a graveyard of games that tried to drive dependency on their game somehow by those who picked it up, rather than say making figures that made sense to use in any game, from scale, to function, to price. Nobody seems interested in making figures, these days, that can be used for their own game and also for someone else's. Or better said, few large game companies. There are plenty of small ones doing fine.
If FFG needed to make a certain large amount of money in a short period of time, the way they did it with Runewars was bound to fail. How it is now is it should be in permanent 25% of MSRP mode. It's too much money otherwise for what you are getting. I would think Helldorado was a lesson learned by Asmodee, but I do think that game companies keep trying to invade the miniature game market for a number of reasons. But you have to go about it the right way, and as a consumer, I never saw the value of getting involved in yet one more Fantasy game that I would have to pay a lot for and probably not be able to repurpose a number of the figures for other games if it failed. So I never started, and still feel bad for FFG, but not enough to try their now dead game.
To be cynical, I also happen to believe it was all win/win for FFG even if Runewars failed. When they released it, I knew there would be another goal of making the most of the Star Wars license, and that what is Legions would be the real target. I mean, if it was super successful, you probably would have seen H.P. Lovecraft miniature wars, a re-release of Legends of the Five Rings, and so on....
It all sounds good, but it's out of step with what I feel most miniature gamers are looking for. Miniature gamers do not want to try something for 2-5 years only to see it drop. They want to know you're going to at least try to produce the game forever, be around forever, trying to put out new product forever, even if you have long delays in releases. It's more grass roots than top down. And I feel like pulling the support from RuneWars only drives more loyalty of miniature gamers to things that already exist. Games Workshop games are awful, Privateer is okay, but what both those companies share is that they are primarily in the business of making games that sell miniatures. It's not a branch of what they do, it is their main thing.
So...unless you are them, exclusivity hurts you.
**** thats a big wall of text.
Try paraphrasing.
i repeat :
FFG make chairs with three legs and because they sell bad they never make the fourth leg.
the elven army for battle lore would not only sell good in its own, it would raise the game ion general. in runewars bigger models for flying mounts (as shown in the runewars boardgame : rocrider, pegasus rider, undead dragon, chaoslord) would not only sell good but raise the game in general. the marketing directors of asmodee germany should be fired immediately, they have no idea of what they are doing.
additional, an easy - to - play rule would be necessary.
but who are we. as long as every american would buy **** if on the package it is named luke skywalkers ****, marketing directors do not need to think.
Edited by magicrealm2 hours ago, magicrealm said:i repeat :
FFG make chairs with three legs and because they sell bad they never make the fourth leg.
the elven army for battle lore would not only sell good in its own, it would raise the game ion general. in runewars bigger models for flying mounts (as shown in the runewars boardgame : rocrider, pegasus rider, undead dragon, chaoslord) would not only sell good but raise the game in general. the marketing directors of asmodee germany should be fired immediately, they have no idea of what they are doing.
additional, an easy - to - play rule would be necessary.
but who are we. as long as every american would buy **** if on the package it is named luke skywalkers ****, marketing directors do not need to think.
Don't bash us Americans, IF FFG would promote and commit real resources to something without the SW name or Five Rings attached to it, maybe then the game would not have whimpered by. I am a late adopter because no one else locally played and the price was on the high side - Runewars leader pack is $25, Imperial Assault 2 pack wass $10-15.
22 hours ago, KelRiever said:Games Workshop games are awful
Well that's certainly a stretch.
I’m not sure this direction of the discussion gets us anywhere productive. If FFG has problems, that’s their own to solve. For us playing the game now, there are only any lingering balance issues and private organization and support.
Games Workshop miniatures are great but their games are awful. No apologies on that!
And my post is long, I admit, but that’s not a wall of text. It’s thought out with paragraphs. Feel free to disagree but it should be plenty legible. I’m not on Twitter.
Edited by KelRiever26 minutes ago, KelRiever said:Games Workshop miniatures are great but their games are aweful. No apologies on that!
And my post is long, I admit, but that’s not a wall of text. It’s thought out with paragraphs. Feel free to disagree but it should be plenty legible. I’m not on Twitter.
I agree. Their games are full of awe.
Haha good one on my misspelling!
But they are bad, bad games.....sorry.
Oh and corrected
On 1/31/2019 at 1:46 PM, tgall said:It's only dead when you stop playing it.
Sure, and Norman Bates' mother is only dead when he stops having conversations with her...