@Watercolour Dragon

Well, tbh they never really gotten to much into the lore of the world.

Even in the setting book for genesys, Realms of Terrinoth, is just scratching the surface.

If you look at GW, they make these big campaign books with LOTS of story. They also make novels to expand the lore even more. Just look at what they did for age of sigmar. That was a completely new universe and look at how many books they released in such a short period. That is what FFG should do with terrinoth! The Realms of terrinoth has 30ish pages of lore... 30!!!!!! That is NOTHING. How am I supposed to play a rpg in this setting? I barely know anything.

Hire some writers, give them some basic lines of how you want the overall story to go and let those writers go nuts. Give them a creative space to work with. Just some guidelines and story rules and voila. A universe is being build.

What they can do to make Terrinoth unique and exciting? Nothing, they just need good stories. Warcraft 3 was a very cartoony game but it was the stories that got people invested. The Treachery that people felt when arthas went all lich kingy. How muradin, the funny dwarf, got killed by arthas. Etc. Novels are just words on paper which are very boring to look at but still people LOVE reading specific books!

Reading in 5 lines that some dude went traitory and tried to steel some magic item which exploded ... Sorry but who gets excited by that?!? Give us an emotional connection! Tell us how they gotten to be friends? Did one almost sacrifice himself to safe the other one? Or Did the evil dude become evil because he was trying to safe his friend at some point? Tell us about their training time. I can go on and on.

I love the cartoony style of Terrinoth and the miniatures. It's a very colorful style like warcraft which i love to look at. Warhammer is usually very dark schemes and so are most other fantasy games. The aesthetics of rune wars is fine as is.

A good example is Critical Role. So many people gotten invested in that because of the story. Critical role is basically just a bunch of people playing a rpg. So much fanart was created for it, which is incredible! They even made a rpg setting book for that world and it sold like hotcakes because everyone wants to make a connection with those characters from critical role and be a part of their story.

@Banemus Some very good points, my biggest concern is that FFG (or FFG as it is now/has become) don't truly know the value of what they seeded with Terrinoth, and I hate to say it but it seems they maybe wanted instant sales and instant success with RWM and I don't think you get that critical mass straight off- it has to be worked very hard for over quite some time. I really hope the recent changes at FFG don't mean the end of Terrinoth, but don't lose faith in the games even if it is- there are a lot of fans doing a lot in the gameworld (and the only upside of FFG's partial hiatus/disconnect from some of the games is this actually seems to have increased as a result.) And we have still had new things set in Terrinoth so they may just be keeping the fires stoked until the next biggie.

I'm working on some big heavily story-based adventures for Genesys and Descent (the idea being they'll exist in both games) which explore the characters a lot more, even going into some new story elements I've added for Timmoran, Waiqar and Llovar as well as including some interesting - and at times even quite morally challenging for players - surprises and twists regarding other characters and how their legends intertwine.

I think I have the kind of brain that likes jigsaws and puzzles as across several epic campaign series (one for each of five darknesses, the three we know and two after those) I'm planning on exploring (with my own adaptations) all the characters and entities - the heroes and adversaries - and how there are a lot more connections than is initially obvious. Everything will work as standalone adventure modules or will all fit together as a whole journey through the lore of Mennara.

It's a huge project but proving so much fun (I love storytelling- still enjoy traditional storytelling events where tales are recounted that have passed down generations).

There should be plenty of variety so players will be able to pick what most excites them or the really ambitious could work through them all (I am wrestling with if there's a way to make a solitaire version, answer at the moment 'no', but I'm hanging on to the idea in case I find a way to make it work).

FFG may yet give us more though- they have published fiction linked to other games and although they're late to their own party again (a bit like some aspects of RWM) they may *cough* eventually *cough* give us some adventures and richer content for Terrinoth in Genesys' RPG environment - this would be a good opportunity to expand on the lore and bring something new into the mix. I'm surprised they've not done any Terrinoth novels, but again, we may get some in future if they follow what's happened with other games.

I'm also trying to bring a bit more character depth to my ideas than is sometimes in the games so it's not just ah, they're evil (with no explanation, they just are OK) but instead ah, they're complicated or they're evil because etc etc..... I'm loving working with 'grey areas' too (breaking out of the clear good/evil splits of fantasy a bit I know but I find things more interesting this way), especially that in the later darknesses even the heroes' histories are woven into what has harmed Mennara- sometimes pasts may catch up with them or the best solutions as to how they reach their goals might not be so easy to weigh up when they're presented with particular choices or sometimes uncomfortable truths.

21 hours ago, Darth Matthew said:

They ended organized play, but didn't say if they w  ere going to continue to support the game or not. 

They wont announce the end of a game they dont "complete". If they did they would risk leaving plastic on shelves and in the warehouses. Its a crappy thing to do to the community since it puts us in a state of 'will they/wont they, but its the right business decision to try move their remaining product.

As far as I'm concerned this product strategy never made any sense. It's a fantastic product, when we did demos on x-wing day the x-wing players couldn't get enough. I've only demo'd the game to one guy (out of 20 or so) who didn't want to play more. The thing that stopped them was the companies hesitance to support their game. Which brings me to my main point. FFG never made a grand push to get ppl into RW after GenCon.

If I was developing a product I would understand that advertising is going to be a critical element of the products success. You cant just put something out there with minimal advertisement and then when it doesn't do well just say it's a dog and it was never going to sell anyways.

It is frustrating to no end that this community is more passionate about the game than it's content owners. That I did demos on my own time and FFG wanted nothing to do with in store demos.

I'll still play and I hope to see a group of you at GenCon this year so we can shout at FFG across the game floor and let them know we love this game, and given a chance - a real chance others would come on board as well!

2 hours ago, flightmaster101 said:

They wont announce the end of a game they dont "complete". If they did they would risk leaving plastic on shelves and in the warehouses. Its a crappy thing to do to the community since it puts us in a state of 'will they/wont they, but its the right business decision to try move their remaining product. 

As far as I'm concerned this product strategy never made any sense. It's a fantastic product, when we did demos on x-wing day the x-wing players couldn't get enough. I've only demo'd the game to one guy (out of 20 or so) who didn't want to play more. The thing that stopped them was the companies hesitance to support their game. Which brings me to my main point. FFG never made a grand push to get ppl into RW after GenCon.

If I was developing a product I would understand that advertising is going to be a critical element of the products success. You cant just put something out there with minimal advertisement and then when it doesn't do well just say it's a dog and it was never going to sell anyways.

It is frustrating to no end that this community is more passionate about the game than it's content owners. That I did demos on my own time and FFG wanted nothing to do with in store dem  os.

I'll still play and I hope to see a group of you at GenCon this year so we can shout at FFG across the game floor and let them know we love this game, and given a chance - a real chance others would come on board as well!

Great post. Demo at Gencon is one thing, gets some eyes and outlets talking about it, but you really need local demos to get the majority of people to notice. My store had some posters prerelease, but not a single event or person talking about the game. I was excited for it, but there was no one locally that even mentioned it, so I initially skipped it. I think locally it was too close to Age of Sigmar for he warmachine players and for the FFG players it was not a genre they wanted vs Star Wars, but then to do nothing for the game really gave it NO traction.

On 1/21/2019 at 9:21 AM, flightmaster101 said:

It is frustrating to no end that this community is more passionate about the game than it's content owners. That I did demos on my own time and FFG wanted nothing to do with in store demos.

This.

A lot of fans put in a lot more work than FFG in the realm of community engagement, lore expansion, and certainly in tournament support and management.

Yeah, yeah, I know. "It's complicated! There's a lot of things to consider behind the scenes!" and as true as that may be... it STILL doesn't explain some of the hugely obvious blunders, missteps, and downright boneheaded choices on the part of FFG as a whole.

-They posted underwhelming articles and wildly inaccurate and unfollowable batreps with massive gaps between.

-What OP support DID exist was often confusing or screwed up in some way (GIANT objective tokens, the only token whose size matters! Here have a bag of tokens you will ONLY need if you play Waiqar AND take Wraiths AND take a specific upgrade, obviously you want five of these! Oh, you wanted points values on these objective cards? Too bad!)

-They (it seems almost intentionally) drew out their basic release over a painfully long period of time that was wholly unnecessary, and when they DID make releases they constantly stumbled over a tripwire made of Disney IP that THEY put in front of themselves.

As a RWM playtester (I can say that, right? My name's in the pamphlets, ain't no secret.) I can say that there was a lot of love and passion in the actual design and lore team for RWM, and it is painful to watch their ideas coming together and their excitement and passion for the IP, seemingly as their own parent company hamstrings them and ultimately pulls the rug out from under them in public.

Next step : finding a serious company to take the brand and sell RWM compatible products for passionates players like us !

If I had the investment capital...

A source of dials and trays (with slots for common industry bases) would be a big help in getting people to play. A conversion kit for other fantasy armies to work in Runewars.

2 hours ago, hakooh said:

Next step : finding a serious company to take the brand and sell RWM compatible products for passionates players like us !

43 minutes ago, Bhelliom said:

A source of dials and trays (with slots for common industry bases) would be a big help in getting people to play. A conversion kit for other fantasy armies to work in Runewars.

I've looked into dials. I found one place that could do them for between $2 and $5, depending on quantity ordered, after a $250 setup fee. They do cards, too, with widely varying prices, depending on size and paper stock.

I haven't found anyone that does custom dice or trays yet, but I'm sure they're out there.

However , there's this little issue of copyright. Game mechanics can't be copyrighted, so we could, theoretically, produce a very similar game. I'm not sure exactly how similar we could make it and still call it a different game (pretty close, if HEX: Shards of Fate is any indication), but on the other hand, if we're going that far, I've got some improvements I want to add in, which should differentiate the games anyway. (And that should work whether the group takes my suggestions either as-is, or in groupthink modified form.)

But back to copyright: if we can't work out a licensing agreement with FFG, then the artwork, including most of the icons, would need to be replaced. The rules would need to be rewritten. Anyone wanting lore would have to redo that. Most of the unit names would need to be changed. Non-generic terminology would probably need to be changed.

I see copyright as the most challenging issue with continuing the game on.

1 hour ago, Xelto said:

I've looked into dials. I found one place that could do them for between $2 and $5, depending on quantity ordered, after a $250 setup fee. They do cards, too, with widely varying prices, depending on size and paper stock.

I haven't found anyone that does custom dice or trays yet, but I'm sure they're out there.

However , there's this little issue of copyright. Game mechanics can't be copyrighted, so we could, theoretically, produce a very similar game. I'm not sure exactly how similar we could make it and still call it a different game (pretty close, if HEX: Shards of Fate is any indication), but on the other hand, if we're going that far, I've got some improvements I want to add in, which should differentiate the games anyway. (And that should work whether the group takes my suggestions either as-is, or in groupthink modified form.)

But back to copyright: if we can't work out a licensing agreement with FFG, then the artwork, including most of the icons, would need to be replaced. The rules would need to be rewritten. Anyone wanting lore would have to redo that. Most of the unit names would need to be changed. Non-generic terminology would probably need to be changed.

I see copyright as the most challenging issue with continuing the game on.

Changing icons isn't that bad of an idea. Green and Blue runes look far too much like each other. Wish the cards printed the color on the logo of the rune.

If you're thinking about an updated/new system, send me a PM, I've got some ideas on how to replace movement templates.

45 minutes ago, Darth Matthew said:

Changing icons isn't that bad of an idea. Green and Blue runes look far too much like each other. Wish the cards printed the color on the logo of the rune.

Huh. I never had any problems with that. Though you're right, having colors on the cards would be useful.

Quote

If you're thinking about an updated/new system, send me a PM, I've got some ideas on how to replace movement templates.

Why don't you post it here if you're serious about wanting it. I actually mostly like the movement templates, so I'm unlikely to take the idea and run with it.

My gripe that I would like fixed is the rock-scissors-paper game of "Is he going to charge on initiative 4 (so I should dial in a melee attack), or is he going to play head games with me and charge on initiative 6, after my melee attack whiffs at empty air?" I would like to add a "Stand" command (early initiative, lets you counterattack if charged) to most infantry, some siege, and maybe the occasional other unit. That should mostly remove the coin-flip guessing game, while still allowing for surprise moves.

I've got a few lesser ideas as well, but I think I mentioned them elsewhere already.

We don't know for sure that FFG are abandoning it, FFG are so secretive about their games James Bond, Agatha Christie and Truthseer Kel couldn't get to their actual concrete plans for the future beyond the truckloads of SW/ GOT / LOTR.

I think maybe they're too cagey about their plans, at least some tentative maybes may keep some of the players/fans engaged- I get the sense some people have left certain games as they think FFG have dumped them / aren't ever going to fix a known bug or issue etc etc even though this may not actually be the case, because everything's kept so under wraps it doesn't build/maintain a lot of trust with the community.

I really do hope all the IP-love-ins, takeovers and mergers and other business changes aren't the end of all that was great about FFG and the other companies, there are a lot of valuable gamey eggs in their one basket now, if they break them due to not taking good care of said basket it could do a lot of harm to the games community and the enjoyment these many titles bring.

On ‎1‎/‎21‎/‎2019 at 4:21 PM, flightmaster101 said:

If I was developing a product I would understand that advertising is going to be a critical element of the products success. You cant just put something out there with minimal advertisement and then when it doesn't do well just say it's a dog and it was never going to sell anyways.  

It doesn't make sense, unless you already know that the product is more or less a test of your production capabilities, QA, packaging and distribution in prepare for upcoming launch of much bigger miniatures game based on well know IP.

This thread gave me the idea, if anybody wants to make some new army/ unit options from Terrinoth lore to add a bit of variety vs the four armies thus far, the work the Genesys community have been doing in bringing all Terrinoth's 'beings' to playable entities in Genesys might be a helpful starting point.

Thinking about it there could be some good army options such as Skarn fronting an army (I'm not sure what of- entities that can take elements of their surroundings into their being!) or Ariad with a force of spidery critters and the potential to become a giant Spider-being or a snakey army of nagas and medusae and other snakey beasties.

So there's no reason you couldn't bring hero and monster pieces from other Terrinoth games into RWM with a little creative thought.

There are a number of threads on this in the Genesys forums but this bestiary's growing quite nicely and may seed some ideas for RWM, don't be afraid to be creative too - I'm using some big dragon ornaments for my custom games for Genesys / Descent, so until if/when FFG finally raise the bar to the next level, there's ways to bring that extra creativity into the games even if they let things go a bit stale.

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/287761-terrinoth-bestiary

You could also play with some of the things hinted at by the lore within RWM, for example Beastmaster Th’Uk Tar has the aim of controlling other creatures to fight on his side in the lore - "once-loyal animals will be added to Th’Uk Tar’s pack, increasing his power until none can stand against him! " (from https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2018/9/19/twisted-fearmonger/ ) - so there are things like this that could lead to some interesting potential game-changers.

9 minutes ago, Watercolour Dragon said:

This thread gave me the idea, if anybody wants to make some new army/ unit options from Terrinoth lore to add a bit of variety vs the four armies thus far, the work the Genesys community have been doing in bringing all Terrinoth's 'beings' to playable entities in Genesys might be a helpful starting point.

Thinking about it there could be some good army options such as Skarn fronting an army (I'm not sure what of- entities that can take elements of their surroundings into their being!) or Ariad with a force of spidery critters and the potential to become a giant Spider-being or a snakey army of nagas and medusae and other snakey beasties.

So there's no reason you couldn't bring hero and monster pieces from other Terrinoth games into RWM with a little creative thought.

The tricky part is making decent-quality components to go with these beasties, primarily the command tools.

The movement system is licensed btw. So if you want to use that system in your own game, you will have to get a license for it.

1 hour ago, Banemus said:

The movement system is licensed btw. So if you want to use that system in your own game, you will have to get a license for it.

I didn't see any patent information in the rule book, nor a quick patent search. And copyright doesn't cover game mechanics. Can you go into more detail about this license?

Re copyright- if it's just fans making adaptations for fans that's usually not an issue with the company that made whichever game, it could be if they wanted it to be (it's that grey area of what the company is/isn't OK with) but players adapt games (which is how killer chess where the aim is to lose all the pieces came about of course). So if you're doing it non-commercially I don't think there would be a problem - especially if it was for bringing other kit FFG make into the game (such as my Skarn example - it would mean you could buy this or other FFG kit to use in the game.)

But it's also potentially good for future sales- say someone works out how to bring in say a phoenix (yeron) rider - as there currently isn't such an option, if FFG ever make one it already has appeal, sometimes to get the game you want you have to fill in the gaps as a player/fan if the company in question leaves the holes you'd like it to fill - I bet a lot of RWM players want dragons, and if FFG don't make them an option I can imagine players eventually doing it themselves, likewise for other options not yet in the game.

This is of course how companies can miss opportunities NOT making things that would be popular for a product line. FFG never ported over some of the characters missing for first edition Descent into second edition, so sorry FFG but as I missed out on some of these in the days of first edition (they stopped making them before I could buy them) , I've found proxies in order to still be able to use those characters in second edition so other companies have gotten the business FFG could have had for these items, that's why I can't understand a lot of FFG's marketing strategies or rather lack of for Terrinoth, it's got so much potential I really don't get why they lack the passion to believe in it enough to really build it up, where's the missing chunk of enthusiasm? Some's there but it feels like not enough. As I've said you can go into a shop to see a certain rival's product and the staff make you really excited about it and all the aspects of the hobby and they seem to know of what's coming out in future even longer term sometimes, FFG haven't yet cracked this as well. Hopefully in future!

All you need is a good 3d Printer Artist like Leavon Archer and his Spare oom Studio. If you convince him to make Runewars Models and there are enough people who order them he will do it for sure. Just take a look

https://www.leavon.co.uk/online-store

You find his excellent Talisman models also here in the Archive forums of Talisman. Actually i try to convince him to make the four Runewars faction castles you can see on the player sheets of the boardgame.

For FFG policy in Games like Runewars or Battle Lore i found a good compare : They make chairs with three legs and because the selling is bad they never make the fourth leg !

4 hours ago, Watercolour Dragon said:

Re copyright- if it's just fans making adaptations for fans that's usually not an issue with the company that made whichever game, it could be if they wanted it to be (it's that grey area of what the company is/isn't OK with) but players adapt games (which is how killer chess where the aim is to lose all the pieces came about of course). So if you're doing it non-commercially I don't think there would be a problem - especially if it was for bringing other kit FFG make into the game (such as my Skarn example - it would mean you could buy this or other FFG kit to use in the game.)

It's the 'non-commercially' part that concerns me, specifically because there are a few components that will be hard to create on an individual level with our current tech level—the command tool being the one at the forefront of my concerns. It should be possible to create command tools out of materials other than chipboard, but, speaking as someone who makes prototype components for testing, the results are likely to be less than stellar.

There are places that will make custom components... but they usually give discounts for bulk purchases. My usual go-to place will sell counter sets for $5 each... or down to $2 each if we buy 600 at a time. Oh, and they have a $250 setup fee to make the custom die.

$5 each for a few pieces of chipboard isn't exactly cheap, and you have to add shipping and minimum orders on top of that, but it is doable. But you have to figure out how to get the initial $250 setup fee paid. And the logistics of trying to reduce costs by doing a group-purchase, and then group-divide, are an absolute nightmare if you don't want to risk someone turning a profit at the end of the day.

Now, some of us could get reasonable quality components without all this extra hassle—for me, my local library has a laser cutter for patron use, and so long as I don't mind sanding the scorch marks off the edges, I'm good. But I did a quick look-around, and while public tech rooms have become common in libraries near me, they're not universal yet.

I just watched the video teaser for the new game, The Lord of the Rings: Journeys in Middle Earth. Man! Even a 1.5 minute video like that could have done soooo much to increase visibility for this game. I can't believe this game never had any kind of video.

@Xelto I've not thought too much about RWM mechanics as yet as although the plan was to get into the game once I'd built up an army and some familiarity with the game that's not my entry point to the game (as initially my focus has been on my other purpose of buying into the game- using figures/ideas for Genesys RPG and Descent), in fact it's only once I got the core set that it began to gain that appeal of using it as intended as it seems a lot of fun as a minis battle game.

Hopefully FFG realise even the biggest fans can't buy everything at once and won't stop making it *cough* like happened with 1e Descent *cough*. Still a lot of RWM/Terrinoth kit I hope to buy once I've got the cash (I get my Terrinoth kit in stages, gradually adding to my collection, hopefully before things go out of print, have already ticked a lot of boxes but still some to fill).

so

this is without knowing the mechanics well enough to know if there are such options but what I was wondering is are there ways of getting the same results without the exact same tools (cheaper versions of a command tool or an alternative component that has the same function for example) - for fan / friends projects you can't always match the quality of the original (and in many ways this is often a good thing - it means the company product is still the go to quality should they catch up and actually release an official product that fills the gap the fans filled previously)

Even at the lowest level maybe card mounted dials with paper fasteners, cheap and cheerful yes but for a fan project maybe enough to do the trick.

Unless FFG does completely officially drop the line I don't think there's any need to be thinking about commercially making the items as some people have discussed, and if they were to go that route should that happen it would need a lot of complex legal negotiations with FFG, so the best route is just to do it as a fan thing in a similar way to fans bringing the missing elves into one of the other games (FFG never did so if the fans hadn't done this the Latari would have never been in that game!)

More bad news as I'm sure this is a recent change? Don't think it was here before- the forum section for Runewars (the original not RWM) is in the Forum Archive now, so another bit of Terrinoth to gather dust? May never get Banners of War either (was out of print when got Runewars), think the original Runewars was also on the Terrinoth product list until very recently, it's also now no longer there.

However, all five of the five products that ARE there (not counting the sixth, Battlelore, as that too looks like being semi-retired for the immediate future- most of the extra content's unavailable and not being reprinted) are fairly new - slightly unhelpful in terms of insight Descent wise as it's only the new app content that has changed things here but the new app content means it's certainly not dead (and it seems to still be selling with things being reprinted, selling out, being reprinted....)

Heroes of Terrinoth - November 2018

Legacy of Dragonholt - November 2017

Descent 2e - no new game content since (sometime around summer 2016???) BUT new app content - a full campaign - December 2018

Significantly for Runewars Miniatures - the three latest Uthuk expansions - November 2018 so actually still quite recent

Runebound - Unbreakable Bonds expansion - July 2017

so maybe FFG are gradually rethinking and refreshing the Terrinoth lines a bit and we shouldn't write them off just yet, in the context of these reminders things in the realm don't seem quite so bleak, FFG may just have moved some things off-radar while they decide their future, also bear in mind that the rethinks may partly have been prompted by positive fanbase developments- the Descent app meant Descent gained fresh momentum and sales, Genesys (November 2017 and for Realms of Terrinoth April 2018) further engaged the community with Terrinoth as a game realm, so there is some cause for optimism that FFG won't just foolishly drop Terrinoth/Mennara and are (if they are smart enough to make use of this momentum) still planning new things for it.

Journeys in Middle Earth which we don't know too much about yet even hints at the possible fusion of different elements- maybe we are getting something similar to my ideas in future (it wouldn't be impossible for FFG to come up with something clever where the same game kit series offered the playstyles of Descent, Battlelore and the original Runewars game in one by having some overlapping kit and flexibly designed mapping / terrain tiles with specific kit for whichever of the game styles you wished to play, tricky to pull off and make it work but done well it means you still get what those games were originally- you don't lose any of the games they just exist in a cleverly implemented way that shares some common resources - I'm not talking about merging them into one game just bringing some of the kit together and giving different types of game you can play with it and setting the system up so expansions such as new map tiles or figures could serve the different types of gameplay. Which of course means you could experiment with a new style of campaign that did fuse some of the game styles, yet at the same time keep them as separate things too. That would be awesome as a way to build on these three legacy games. If done with my different levels of map/terrain kit idea (which I've had since The Sea of Blood as it used a poster map with the Descent tiles, seeing the new LOTR game made me realize there is more you could do with such a system) it could be really epic- as I've said have the main land mass map as a poster-style sheet, hexes of some sort for larger areas and the battle styled gameplay options, Descent like square-grid map tiles for detailed rooms / building interiors/ specific scenes/ areas/ similar close detail, perhaps some terrain kit to put within/on these, as a whole covering plenty of options such as climate types (snowy, sandy etc) and environments and the different varied locations that allow for some great storyteling and scene-setting within the games. Innovation like this is how to make the games the best of their type again with rival companies upping their game in recent times (pun intended). Terrinoth's game realm legacy deserves it.

" For many scenarios, you’ll remain solely on the journey map, but for more tactical situations like a micro-scale, combat-oriented adventure, you’ll move from the journey map to the battle map " makes me think there's a bit of this kind of thinking in the LOTR Journeys in Middle Earth game and reading the article did make me think of those three games in terms of the map tile pictures and the fact it offers 1 to 5 player play from the off.

I think FFG could run with this to the benefit of several of the Terrinoth options going forward, RWM uses terrain too so there could even be something clever for this and the map 'layers and levels' system.

Interesting things still to come in Terrinoth hopefully!

@Budgernaut They should do a few epic things like a dragon, pegasus (yeron) rider and Waiqar then do a video!

6 hours ago, Watercolour Dragon said:

@Xelto this is without knowing the mechanics well enough to know if there are such options but what I was wondering is are there ways of getting the same results without the exact same tools (cheaper versions of a command tool or an alternative component that has the same function for example) - for fan / friends projects you can't always match the quality of the original (and in many ways this is often a good thing - it means the company product is still the go to quality should they catch up and actually release an official product that fills the gap the fans filled previously)

Even at the lowest level maybe card mounted dials with paper fasteners, cheap and cheerful yes but for a fan project maybe enough to do the trick.

Of course there are other options. That's how you get prototype components, after all. But they're rarely durable, can need fixing at awkward times, and definitely lack the visual appeal that's part of the flavor of a miniatures game.

On 1/23/2019 at 6:26 PM, Xelto said:

The tricky part is making decent-quality components to go with these beasties, primarily the command tools.

Another way this COULD go is that FFG stays involved with the game but does it in a different way.

Other game companies are turning to kickstarted / fire starter to basically say, we'll make X, but you the players have to back the project and thus sales are made ahead of development. I don't honestly know if FFG would ever consider that kind of approach to doing something for a game, but if I'm ever rubbing elbows with one of the upper types at FFG in the future, that'll be the #1 question I'll have for them. Maybe others who might have a similar opportunity to pose that kind of question would keep it in mind and do the same.

18 minutes ago, tgall said:

Another way this COULD go is that FFG stays involved with the game but does it in a different way.

Other game companies are turning to kickstarted / fire starter to basically say, we'll make X, but you the players have to back the project and thus sales are made ahead of development. I don't honestly know if FFG would ever consider that kind of approach to doing something for a game, but if I'm ever rubbing elbows with one of the upper types at FFG in the future, that'll be the #1 question I'll have for them. Maybe others who might have a similar opportunity to pose that kind of question would keep it in mind and do the same.

This is exactly my thought. Another alternative is a set of cards (not figures) with upgrades for each faction (and some neutral upgrades) which could be printed through their print on demand capability. They’ve done this with a bunch of their other games. This is such a minimal investment business proposition that it would essentially tease out whether or not FFG has truly moved one from the game. The concern in the back of my mind is that with the Asmodee transition complete, they are now focused on increasing revenue through their major licenses and that they don’t want to devote one minute of someone’s time to do anything else even something as minimal as card layout, proofing, etc.