3 minutes ago, ScummyRebel said:

Feel free to go back and find the interviews that say you can use all your ships in 2.0.

Well. You can.

Any ship from 1.0, you can fly using the 2.0 rules. That's all that means. And even if they promised you could use them competitively... you can. Just maybe not the way most people prefer.

5 minutes ago, ScummyRebel said:

Feel free to go back and find the interviews that say you can use all your ships in 2.0.

And... you can. So?

5 minutes ago, ScummyRebel said:

Feel free to go back and find the interviews that say you can use all your ships in 2.0.

I never conflated that promise with "all ships will be legal for all tournaments."

1 minute ago, AlexW said:

I never conflated that promise with "all ships will be legal for all tournaments."

In fact they repeatedly specifically said that wouldn't be the case as restricting ships & upgrades was a key feature of moving to the app for points.

16 minutes ago, ScummyRebel said:

Feel free to go back and find the interviews that say you can use all your ships in 2.0.

I would suggest you watch those interviews and articles that specifically mentioned the app would be used to restrict ships and upgrades for various formats. They told us that not everything would be legal for all tourneys.

29 minutes ago, Dabirdisdaword said:

I would suggest you watch those interviews and articles that specifically mentioned the app would be used to restrict ships and upgrades for various formats. They told us that not everything would be legal for all tourneys.

I think the community is surprised that they've banned a large swath of the game from Hyperspace. Banning a problem pilot until a fix is implemented is probably what they expected.

For myself, I expected alternate formats - they've been a clear part of the offering since well before release - but I expected them to be part of the casual-play store-level offering, as an option alongside quick builds and extended play. I'd be fine with that.

I expected Extended to be the standard for System Opens and Store Champs+ tier stuff, because it's a broader format with more options and less chance of a stale meta.

But then, I also expected a points rebalancing per wave, rather than once every six months, which is WAY too far apart.

9 minutes ago, Koing907 said:

I think the community is surprised that they've banned a large swath of the game from Hyperspace. Banning a problem pilot until a fix is implemented is probably what they expected.

I think much of 'the community' predicted this very accurately and were very vocal about trying to disseminate this so people knew what to expect. Most podcasts and blogs called it pretty much spot on from day one.

11 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

For myself, I expected alternate formats - they've been a clear part of the offering since well before release - but I expected them to be part of the casual-play store-level offering, as an option alongside quick builds and extended play. I'd be fine with that.

I expected Extended to be the standard for System Opens and Store Champs+ tier stuff, because it's a broader format with more options and less chance of a stale meta.

But then, I also expected a points rebalancing per wave, rather than once every six months, which is WAY too far apart.

I'm not sure 'per wave' and 'per 6 months' is going to be very different from each other.

1 minute ago, SOTL said:

I'm not sure 'per wave' and 'per 6 months' is going to be very different from each other.

We've had 3 waves in the first six months of the game, but beyond that, you're probably right.

I misspoke; per release would be better wording. In 1e we typically had 3 to 4 releases per year, but only two waves.

14 minutes ago, SOTL said:

I think much of 'the community' predicted this very accurately and were very vocal about trying to disseminate this so people knew what to expect. Most podcasts and blogs called it pretty much spot on from day one.

Perhaps FFG should have been the ones doing the disseminating. Predictions and opinions are fine and good, but you and the rest of us are not official FFG spokespeople, and one person's prediction is another person's wild rumor.

3 minutes ago, Koing907 said:

Perhaps FFG should have been the ones doing the disseminating.

This I can get behind. Hearing more often from FFG developers would go far to either confirm or dissuade my worries about Hyperspace and how they plan to focus their efforts and balance of the game going forward.

7 minutes ago, Koing907 said:

Perhaps FFG should have been the ones doing the disseminating. Predictions and opinions are fine and good, but you and the rest of us are not official FFG spokespeople, and one person's prediction is another person's wild rumor.

That's fine, so long as you're happy waiting for word from the people who have the most to gain by allowing you to make poor assumptions. But then you've really only got yourself to blame I think.

1 minute ago, kris40k said:

This I can get behind. Hearing more often from FFG developers would go far to either confirm or dissuade my worries about Hyperspace and how they plan to focus their efforts and balance of the game going forward.

Here's the rub. I don't think FFG have a plan to balance the game. Not like we would call a plan. Hyperspace and points adjustments in the App approach suggests to me that FFG are going to toss out stuff* and then try to balance the mess later via points adjustments and ban lists.

*Obviously nothing insane like a TIE fighter with a 1,000,000 dice primary attack...

Just now, SOTL said:

That's fine, so long as you're happy waiting for word from the people who have the most to gain by allowing you to make poor assumptions. But then you've really only got yourself to blame I think.

This is an excellent point, that 2.0 is the end of X-Wing. If FFG are that malicious, then they're on a track to auger the game into the ground.

Personally, I like the game, and hope your assessment is inaccurate.

2 minutes ago, Koing907 said:

Here's the rub. I don't think FFG have a plan to balance the game. Not like we would call a plan. Hyperspace and points adjustments in the App approach suggests to me that FFG are going to toss out stuff* and then try to balance the mess later via points adjustments and ban lists.

*Obviously nothing insane like a TIE fighter with a 1,000,000 dice primary attack...

That certainly could be the case; I hope not, as it would be a horrible business decision from a game designers perspective. As far as the app goes, its not a bad approach to game balance. Privateer Press went to an app format specifically because it allows them to quickly adjust abilities and point costs in Warmachine/Hordes without people being dependent on the printed cards. When they see a problem with a particular units abilities (Skills, Spells, kind of comparable to a pilots unique abilities or chasis abilities) they will re-write them during a balance pass, or recost the unit if its too strong or not being played enough.

Then they use Champions as an alternative format to change up the competitive meta and remove things from play, much like Hyperspace could be. It works.

PP just makes their intentions very clear via developer blogs, FFG has not quite done so.

16 hours ago, JJ48 said:

Hm...now that I think about it, maybe one reason I don't mind list-building restrictions and multiple formats is because I come from a card game background (in particular L5R CCG), where there are often restricted or banned lists, and in the case of games like L5R, even regular rotation requiring massive deck changes. I wonder if there's any correlation between those who play such games and those who are fine with Hyperspace format.

In that vein, I have always admired the idea that a tournament season's results in L5R affected the next tournament season.

To wit, wouldn't it be kinda cool of the top placing player from each faction got to choose one of the ships that rotated into Hyperspace for the next season?

4 hours ago, ScummyRebel said:

Right now, I’m running an underground extended format once a month “just show up and take over empty LGS floor space”.... That’s what I get. The one event I signed up for? Was extended when I signed up but has since released due to pressure from the players for more practice it will be Hyperspace. I’ll go, and bring FO since that’s the only faction with lists I can make Hyperspace compatible easily enough.... but that was most certainly not my doing and I’d have probably not signed up had it been billed as Hyperspace on the onset.

I am happy to play extended.... where I can. 2.0 was awesome pretty much until the Hyperspace drop came. Now the try hards are taking over the LGS and it’s their way or the highway - at least in 1.0 if you brought something outside the box you could play.

As a strictly casual player, this is sadly the way I have always felt about the game.

I was never interested in Standard, and definitely never interested in "getting reps" or "get gud." So why would I ever go to the FLGS and try to get a game in?

The main reason this Hyperspace is causing this rift is an extension of exactly what the game has always felt like for me: you are an XWM second-class citizen if you are not playing for FFG's attention. Hyperspace is possibly going to create a new "upper rank" of players that ignores the wants and desires of the Extended player because they are even more competitive than sorta competitive. Just like the game has always ignored players who just want to play Star Wars With Spaceships, competition be-damned.

6 minutes ago, Koing907 said:

Perhaps FFG should have been the ones doing the disseminating.

This. I have never experienced a company that was so tight lipped about the product they want you to buy.

Fundamentally I don't think FFG are overly concerned if a game dies - they've got a hundred games and there'll always be a new one.

X-Wing maybe the only one they've hit that's big enough to really change that but I think the corporate mentality of games being pretty disposable is too ingrained and FFG can't effectively abandon it for the sake of one game.

And I see the launch of 2.0 and it's specific timing as probably linked to the sale of the parent company to new owners. They will have wanted to maximise FY EBITDA to ensure a good sale price so front-loading the big conversion kit splurge into 2018 makes massive sense. Whether or not their relaunch strategy kills x-wing in the long term is literally going to be someone else's problem after the sale is completed.

1 hour ago, Koing907 said:

I think the community is surprised that they've banned a large swath of the game from Hyperspace. Banning a problem pilot until a fix is implemented is probably what they expected.

So people are surprised that the app designed to assist in banning for formats used banning in -one- format?

Jesus you people are making me agree with SOTL! I need to get away from these forums before I just start insulting people non stop

2 minutes ago, Dabirdisdaword said:

So people are surprised that the app designed to assist in banning for formats used banning in -one- format?

Jesus you people are making me agree with SOTL! I need to get away from these forums before I just start insulting people non stop

3 minutes ago, Dabirdisdaword said:

in -one- format

One of two. In other words: as expected

1 minute ago, SOTL said:

****it. I'm in.

6 minutes ago, Dabirdisdaword said:

So people are surprised that the app designed to assist in banning for formats used banning in -one- format?

Not -one- format. Try -the- format.

The idea of multiple formats sounds cool on paper to me....until only one is used for all events. Then the others may as well not even exist, if there’s no support for them.

41 minutes ago, Koing907 said:

*Obviously nothing insane like a TIE fighter with a 1,000,000 dice primary attack...

Oh, come on now! What did we just learn about making assumptions and labeling conclusions "obvious"?!

1 minute ago, ScummyRebel said:

Not -one- format. Try -the- format.

The idea of multiple formats sounds cool on paper to me....until only one is used for all events. Then the others may as well not even exist, if there’s no support for them.

But you understand that this is just hyperbole and lies, right?

This is why you get mocked, because you have to resort to talking utter **** to make a point.