1 hour ago, gennataos said:What would I yell?
"INTIMIDATED!"...?
How about: „Your Mom says Hi”
Five A-Wings
4 hours ago, Bucknife said:Hey, team RZ2.
I've been contemplating the uses of Snap Shot for the gillionth time.
Overcosted Chassis notwithstanding.
Overcosted Snap notwithstanding.
The clear advantage of Optics Zizi notwithstanding.
I'm wondering if the correct threshold for Snap RZ2s is 2 or 3 (while still including any loadout of Zizi and Greer).
Here's a Double Snap version:
-=SnapSquad=-
(40) Zizi Tlo [RZ-2 A-wing]
(1) Heroic
Points: 41(36) Greer Sonnel [RZ-2 A-wing]
(1) Heroic
(4) Advanced Optics
Points: 41(34) Green Squadron Expert [RZ-2 A-wing]
(1) Heroic
(7) Snap Shot
Points: 42(34) Green Squadron Expert [RZ-2 A-wing]
(1) Heroic
(7) Snap Shot
Points: 42(32) Blue Squadron Recruit [RZ-2 A-wing]
(1) Heroic
Points: 33Total points: 199
____________________________
And here's a triple snap:
-=SnapSquad=-
(40) Zizi Tlo [RZ-2 A-wing]
(1) Heroic
Points: 41(36) Greer Sonnel [RZ-2 A-wing]
(1) Heroic
(4) Advanced Optics
Points: 41(32) Blue Squadron Recruit [RZ-2 A-wing]
(7) Snap Shot
Points: 39(32) Blue Squadron Recruit [RZ-2 A-wing]
(7) Snap Shot
Points: 39(32) Blue Squadron Recruit [RZ-2 A-wing]
(7) Snap Shot
Points: 39Total points: 199
I think removal of Optics just makes the list too reliant on variance.
On 2/7/2020 at 4:41 PM, RStan said:New wrinkle I've thought of recently...
Zizi, Greer, Zari, Ronith, & Blue. All with AO and Zari has Intimidation...
No heroic...(yes I don't think it's that crazy).
Even if you're not huge on Intimidation vs 3 Heroics, Zari w/ AO is probably better than Talli without.
54321...BOOM!
I would trade AO from Zari for 4 Heroics.
Well, I went 4-2 at the UK System Open yesterday. Still had a chance of the cut in the final game, going in 4-1.
Enjoyed the list a lot, and it matched up quite well against all the Firesprays and Fangs. Also beat an Imperial list with Vader, Marek and Duchess. Lost the final game again against Vader and Duchess, somehow the guy kept his two valuable ships away from all 5 of my A Wings for most of the match, very good performance.
Really happy with it given I’m only on about 15 games with it. I’ll give it probably until game 50 to fine tune and practice the engagements.
Ended up going with Zizi, Tallie, Ronith and 2 Blue, all with AO and Heroic. Did miss my favourite (Greer) a bit but having the two Blue to supply Ronith with tokens or just shoot at the end with AO was good.
Don't tell anyone, but Zizi is ridiculous.
Edited by ayedubbleyoo@GreenDragoon - Any thoughts on the version of the list you took to the UK SoS?
2 hours ago, gennataos said:@GreenDragoon - Any thoughts on the version of the list you took to the UK SoS?
any moment, I'm at 5020 words at the moment
Edited by GreenDragoonhad an entire section duplicated because wordpress sucks
Ok, any moment was a lie. I have 5 games. Need to do the 6th and some final thoughts
The part about the list is below. The TL;DR is that I still don't know. And honestly, I don't think it matters too much. I liked to be at 199, and to have Ronith. I see the benefit of Zari+Intimidation even over Tallie. As you'll see, I made mistakes that were so far and beyond the nitty gritty detail of my exact list that it does not matter too much. Two i5s are awesome though, so I'll might try without Ronith for a while. Or actually, just stick to the one I have and keep counting how often I wish optics on Tallie, and how often Ronith matters. Just now I played a game against my SO with her 6 strikers. Ronith was the only target, and it took all 6 shots to kill him. That allowed me to take a super risky maneuver with Tallie. Do you rather shoot Tallie r1, or do you finish off a tokenless Ronith at r2? It's a difficult choice, and Ronith adds exactly that.
i5:
Zizi Tlo (45/23)
,
Heroic (1)
,
Advanced Optics (4)
i5:
Tallissan Lintra (37/19)
,
Heroic (1)
i4:
Greer Sonnel (41/21)
,
Heroic (1)
,
Advanced Optics (4)
i2:
Ronith Blario (39/20)
,
Heroic (1)
,
Advanced Optics (4)
i1:
Blue Squadron Recruit (37/19)
,
Heroic (1)
,
Advanced Optics (4)
Total: 199
The inclusion of Zizi, Greer and at least one Blue Squadron Recruit (BSR from now on) is pretty much a given. The first two are the best A-Wings, and the BSR is necessary due to points. The other two A-Wings are not as obvious. Tallie is just another i5, but the lack of Optics cost me at least one game. Ronith is a constant discussion: I used his ability several times over the course of the day and am convinced that he provides an extra layer of decisions for my opponent where they can make mistakes. An alternative list would have a second BSR instead of Ronith, which allows me to give Tallie another Optics. And yet another version includes an Intimidation-Zari, paying for it with - no joke! - complete lack of Heroic. I think that this last version might be amazing in the current meta where ships with high agility+initiative give me the most trouble.
Whatever the exact list, the core is made up of five small ships with pseudo-3-red-dice guns due to optics, a free boost, and a rear arc for great time on target.
Their defense is built by focus plus three agility dice, and two shields to eat the occasional early crit. That might be a trivial side remark, but they almost exclusively care about crits like direct hit, structural damage, damaged engine, and maybe weapons failure.
I also want to point out that the list has way better chances at System Opens: it wins, but it does not crush. As a result, the MoV is usually rather bad.
1 hour ago, GreenDragoon said:I also want to point out that the list has way better chances at System Opens: it wins, but it does not crush. As a result, the MoV is usually rather bad.
I appreciate the report.
This is roughly the conclusion I came to at the end of last season.
Zizi is an awesome addition, and Ronith is intriguing. But I wasn't necessarily expecting it to push over the top.
Finn Pod or Rey Falcon in extended and T70's in general I believe are the starting places for Resistance that need to seriously be considered over pure 5A unless you're just a total boss with these things. ... Which I'm not.
Fly Casual, y'all.
Edited by BucknifeNice one!
I ended up going without Greer, and with an extra Recruit instead. Then optics on everyone. I do love Greer, but at least now all the ships fly basically the same.
Very hard to say which version is best, they’re probably all about the same. I do think Ronith will just get better and better with more practice.
Edited by ayedubbleyoo15 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:
Thanks for the write-up, always a great read.
Do you think there's anything you can do to overcome making those "tired" mistakes?
1 minute ago, gennataos said:Do you think there's anything you can do to overcome making those "tired" mistakes?
I don't know. I guess many people have those? I really wonder because many talk about their games as if mistakes were rare. I do mistakes all the time...
Someone on discord suggested more snacking. I know that I am way worse when I eat fatty lunch, so I usually stick to salads and some foods that last relatively long. That is more difficult in foreign countries, of course.
I used to be very fit and I'm not anymore, so I generally feel very sluggish and constantly tired. So, exercise.
And finally, as I've mentioned a lot in these past 27 pages, the amount of sleep has more of an impact on my tournament results than any opening practice or list experience ever could.
Eat clean, exercise more, sleep better.
That being said, I believe the trick is to do the above, but also to figure out (safe!) ways to play on autopilot.
Ken's "go with the better shot" is one that works well. If in doubt focus. Mnemonics (I use W-R-A-M, I have a half finished blog post in my drafts about it, from June 2019) work for me, too.
These all help for when I'm too tired to think.
One thing I realized over the past 5 years in my life: I am relatively good at developing an intuition for "ok" solutions in a short amount of time. That helps in blitz chess or starcraft 2, for example. So when I play a game, I am not actually as analytical as I am before and after the game - I always wing it. I'd probably be quite good in a "speed-Xwing" variation...
And the other thing that is strange to some US and UK players: we do not have regular game nights. The overwhelming majority of my games are in tournaments, and we do not get as much practice as it seems to be common in the US. I wonder how well we - I - would play if we had weekly 2-3 games around here. That experience very likely helps against those tired mistakes.
For me, I struggle with being too intuitive and not logical enough as well. Sometimes I can't tell you why I thought a move was the best thing to do. Also not as physically fit and mentally sharp as I could be, also working on that.
Also I don't care enough to be really careful (I'm not naturally competitive), which is a strength and a weakness in different ways.
I always play much better in big events than casual nights, I guess that's because it focuses the mind and makes me more serious. I think developing that mindset is the most important thing.
Simple thing like always running through all 5 dials at the end of planning can help. But then I will still do a boost or a barrel roll I hadn't planned and mess something up
20 minutes ago, gennataos said:Thanks for the write-up, always a great read.
Do you think there's anything you can do to overcome making those "tired" mistakes?
For me basically 4th quarter drills help. Kind of „muscle memory” build by repetitions. Those schematics in your brain help you to to overload your brain in simple situations. Also make a habit of not second guess yourself. It rarely works, unless it’s a last second brilliant idea (but that rarely works :D)
3 minutes ago, kenoslaw said:For me basically 4th quarter drills help. Kind of „muscle memory” build by repetitions. Those schematics in your brain help you to to overload your brain in simple situations. Also make a habit of not second guess yourself. It rarely works, unless it’s a last second brilliant idea (but that rarely works :D)
Yeah, that's the experience part.
When you say 4th quarter drills, do you mean practice games? Because I'm also up for actual 4th quarter sprint drills...
For what it's worth I didn't find 5A much more mentally tiring than anything else. It's definitely less taxing than desperately trying to keep Poe alive, and not boring like flying 5 generics in formation.
The games seem to go really fast though, you look up and there's 15 minutes to go.
32 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:I don't know. I guess many people have those? I really wonder because many talk about their games as if mistakes were rare. I do mistakes all the time...
Someone on discord suggested more snacking. I know that I am way worse when I eat fatty lunch, so I usually stick to salads and some foods that last relatively long. That is more difficult in foreign countries, of course.
I used to be very fit and I'm not anymore, so I generally feel very sluggish and constantly tired. So, exercise.
And finally, as I've mentioned a lot in these past 27 pages, the amount of sleep has more of an impact on my tournament results than any opening practice or list experience ever could.
Eat clean, exercise more, sleep better.That being said, I believe the trick is to do the above, but also to figure out (safe!) ways to play on autopilot.
Ken's "go with the better shot" is one that works well. If in doubt focus. Mnemonics (I use W-R-A-M, I have a half finished blog post in my drafts about it, from June 2019) work for me, too.
These all help for when I'm too tired to think.One thing I realized over the past 5 years in my life: I am relatively good at developing an intuition for "ok" solutions in a short amount of time. That helps in blitz chess or starcraft 2, for example. So when I play a game, I am not actually as analytical as I am before and after the game - I always wing it. I'd probably be quite good in a "speed-Xwing" variation...
And the other thing that is strange to some US and UK players: we do not have regular game nights. The overwhelming majority of my games are in tournaments, and we do not get as much practice as it seems to be common in the US. I wonder how well we - I - would play if we had weekly 2-3 games around here. That experience very likely helps against those tired mistakes.
I usually sleep pretty poorly the night before a tournament. I don't think I'm nervous or anxious, I'm excited. I wish I could fix that. I do bring plenty of protein-rich snacks, water and energy drinks (mild ones, not Redbull or Monster types) and am constantly eating/drinking (bathroom break between almost every match). Also, holy **** Advil for me! I really should work on getting more exercise.
I play a lot of games at the table, so I could definitely see it wearing on you if you're not used to it. Live, on a table, reps probably cannot be over-emphasized. There's not a whole lot you can do about that, from the sound of it, aside from running solo games, which some folks just don't like (myself, included).
With 4+ ships I've found it really is helpful to go back through dials if they've taken a while. If I slap them all down quickly, it's probably fine. But, there are definitely times when I've take a bit on a single dial, then find that I didn't consider where another ship was going and end up in a bump. Or, do a reposition that I didn't necessarily plan for, which ends up bumping another ship.
13 minutes ago, ayedubbleyoo said:For what it's worth I didn't find 5A much more mentally tiring than anything else. It's definitely less taxing than desperately trying to keep Poe alive, and not boring like flying 5 generics in formation.
The games seem to go really fast though, you look up and there's 15 minutes to go.
I agree, I've found 5A is kind of "easy" to play. My dials are usually down quickly and I know what I'm doing with each ship when I activate it. The stress of it comes from it being a little on a razor's edge, where it often wins on points at time and just one mistake doesn't necessarily mean a ship dies, but that it gave up points and I've lost.
The unplanned reposition is the most common one for me. Along with mindlessly forgetting initiative order.
1 hour ago, GreenDragoon said:Yeah, that's the experience part.
When you say 4th quarter drills, do you mean practice games? Because I'm also up for actual 4th quarter sprint drills...
Yeah my memory still makes my body hurt when i remind myself about burpees and suicide sprints to end the training
In Xwing, we have night tournaments, after full day of work we start 9pm, 3 rounds usually, ending around 2-3 am
1 minute ago, kenoslaw said:In Xwing, we have night tournaments, after full day of work we start 9pm, 3 rounds usually, ending around 2-3 am
wow! You guys are hardcore!
Just a tiny update:
@RStan with the 54321 version got me thinking: clearly I want to have my cake and eat it too, right? In my case, that's 2x i5s, but also blario and 5x optics. If zero heroics are fine with intimidation zari, why then not 1-2 heroics in my previous list, and add another optics on Tallie? So that's where I am currently. Heroic is nice, and sometimes missed, but optics triggers way more often.
13 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:Just a tiny update:
@RStan with the 54321 version got me thinking: clearly I want to have my cake and eat it too, right? In my case, that's 2x i5s, but also blario and 5x optics. If zero heroics are fine with intimidation zari, why then not 1-2 heroics in my previous list, and add another optics on Tallie? So that's where I am currently. Heroic is nice, and sometimes missed, but optics triggers way more often.
Totally viable option. I was just looking at Zari to see what I could do with Intimidation. Zizi, Talli, Greer, Ronith, and Blue all with AO and just Zizi and Greer with Heroic probably.
Do you guys have any experience with 5421 + Jarek Yeager with Intimidation and Coaxium Hyperfuel/Contraband Cybernetics/Deadman's switch? The idea is that on PS 5 you slam into your opponents.
On paper, if someone can fly, it should be a more reliable solution that 54321 (Zari with Intimidation only).
What do you think? If yes, which Illicit upgrade would be the best for him?
I haven't tried it. Finally got a Fireball, but the first list will be Kaz with Rey and Cova for me. Many report that the fireball should be kept lean, and I'd definitely do that in a list with 4As.
But most lists in the past year didn't do too well when mixing 4As with something. Snap+Composure was (imo) a bit of an exception. The fireball might do ok, but it's not clear. Personally, I'd try Kaz in a 5411+Kaz list.
e:
1 hour ago, RStan said:just Zizi and Greer with Heroic probably.
That's exactly how I built it, too. One thought is to move a heroic from Zizi to Ronith, with the idea that Ronith has a much harder time on a blank out, while Zizi can still have an evade.
Edited by GreenDragoon2 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:That's exactly how I built it, too. One thought is to move a heroic from Zizi to Ronith, with the idea that Ronith has a much harder time on a blank out, while Zizi can still have an evade.
I'd rather put the insurance on Zizi and Ronith's ability already mitigates less desirable results but instead of taking care of double blanks by heroic reroll, he takes care of focus/blank which I think mathematically is more likely to occur than double blank...(pls correct me if wrong). Either way, Ronith already has his consistency bump up via his ability, Heroic more necessary to keep the bottoming out from happening to the best 2 As in the list.