26 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

The tricky thing is that Fett can YOLO into your R1 pretty easily himself: Slave I is pretty disgusting, and he can Slave I > Boost into your R1 from almost anywhere.

It's not always better than focus (don't know the maths; I feel like it usually isn't), but there are enough situations where it is that positioning can be really tough.

Well my games state otherwise, yes slave 1 is powerful, but he doesn’t have 5s, and the punishment he gets for getting into range 1 with 1 ship is big enough.

In some ways it's almost unbelievable that a dial-changing upgrade as potent Slave 1 is not only 1 point, but it also got cheaper in the last update.

4 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Why do you do this every time I comment on anything? It's very patronizing.

The answer is no (these forums were anonymous last time I checked; they're designed to be that way for a reason), and I also know that you don't know who I am. I don't participate in OP events but that does not mean that I don't know what I'm talking about.

There is a Name and Surname section in every profile.

16 minutes ago, kenoslaw said:

Well my games state otherwise, yes slave 1 is powerful, but he doesn’t have 5s, and the punishment he gets for getting into range 1 with 1 ship is big enough.

That's fair; I never mean to argue with experience. I just thought it was relevant.

Ehhh. Maybe I need to take a break from these forums. It's an interesting combination of worlds-level players and people with too much time on their hands, and it can be hard to keep track of who is who. Seems I'm developing a reputation of speaking from inexperience, which is perfectly fair. Know that I do accept constructive criticism and I don't mind being told to shut up.

15 minutes ago, kenoslaw said:

There is a Name and Surname section in every profile.

I had no idea.

Honestly, I still don't. Am I just stupid, or are you trolling, or something else?

I certainly don't see any.

2 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

That's fair; I never mean to argue with experience. I just thought it was relevant.

Ehhh. Maybe I need to take a break from these forums. It's an interesting combination of worlds-level players and people with too much time on their hands, and it can be hard to keep track of who is who. Seems I'm developing a reputation of speaking from inexperience, which is perfectly fair. Know that I do accept constructive criticism and I don't mind being told to shut up.

I had no idea.

Honestly, I still don't. Am I just stupid, or are you trolling, or something else?

I certainly don't see any.

It’s not that, inexperience is ok, experience other than OP tournament is fine aswell. But I’ve really had a lot of experience vs Boba Fenn, and as long as the dice variance was not off badly, 5As are way ahead.

also the name and surname, see attachment

8 minutes ago, kenoslaw said:

also the name and surname, see attachment

Super weird – to me it just looks like this, as does everyone else's.

59 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

these forums were anonymous last time I checked; they're designed to be that way for a reason

not in this part of the forum

kenoslaw is the most decorated 5A player there is. I'm not saying that he can't improve, or learn a trick, or rethink a matchup, or anything like that. But he is one of the consistently high placing players - only, he does so with 5A.

14 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

not in this part of the forum

kenoslaw is the most decorated 5A player there is. I'm not saying that he can't improve, or learn a trick, or rethink a matchup, or anything like that. But he is one of the consistently high placing players - only, he does so with 5A.

Hahaha yeah that one certainly got the better of me. I totally didn't realize.

Obvs if he says Boba Fenn is a good matchup I'd take his word for it.

4 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Hahaha yeah that one certainly got the better of me. I totally didn't realize.

Obvs if he says Boba Fenn is a good matchup I'd take his word for it.

It is unless you fly it badly.

5 hours ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Why do you do this every time I comment on anything? It's very patronizing.

The answer is no (these forums were anonymous last time I checked; they're designed to be that way for a reason), and I also know that you don't know who I am. I don't participate in OP events but that does not mean that I don't know what I'm talking about.

Edit: Apologies for the overreaction. It's not true and certainly an exaggeration. Still, this is the 2nd or third time this week you've said something like that to me so it felt like a vendetta.

Do I do that? Sorry, I’m not targeting you. I was just asking if you knew who he was because you were telling him something he’d already know and is kind of an expert. /shrug

Anyway, back to matchups: Let's discuss one by one. Just pick one of them and we can take a look. I'll start with Kylo and 4FOs :

Kylo Ren (76) (+ AO maybe)

4x Omega Squadron Ace (28)
Proud Tradition (2)

I see several problems in this matchup:

1. it's 5 ships against 5, and all 10 ships on the table have 10 agility. That's tough!
2. He has 4 "fillers" that sloop and keep their focus. They should be able to stay on target very well.
   1. Awings can't really afford to spend a focus to turn PT. Maybe take a crit on shields?
3. The list is all about Kylo. Kill him and you win. Only... I doubt that works.

That gives you a choice: do you go after Kylo, probably not kill him, and lose to the mini swarm? Or do you take out the FOs and survive with >80pts against Kylo+bid=80pts? I would try to go for the second, unless there is a really good situation to do the first.

Specific tactics:

• Obstacles:
  • Dense asteroid/debris field to break up the FO block - if he deploys that way
    • keep in mind that he should not care about debris ! PT allows him to move through a debris and take a focus anyway and the shield will eat the crit if that really happens. The dial is really good, too.
  • If he brings clouds: I would place them rather outside. Every ship has 3 agility, and I don't want him to make use of that.
  • In any way, draw him through to gain a small edge.
• Setup:
  • 2-1-2.
  • Though I have to train something: setup BSR and Ronith in a way that allows me to decide later whether I want to do the 2-1-2 or the finger five. That should allow me to leave my opponent in the dark for a bit longer.
  • Finger Five would allow a block joust if, and only if, his Kylo was somewhere and can't get to the clash in time. Block with the BSR and take out the blocked ship (45% chance!).
• Target priorities:
  • I'd go for one FO at a time, as mentioned. All 5 range 2 attacks are likely to do 3 damage overall , but 2 and 4 can happen. That should allow me to take out a ship every other turn.
  • Of course, range 1 and 3 exist.
• Defense:
  • Kylo+lock and 4 focus shots should do the same damage to you. There are two silver linings:
    • if he shoots at Ronith, he will take less damage
    • 5A has (usually) 3 ships above i3, allowing me to change his target opportunities
  • Of course, Kylo can swoop into range 1 and take it out.
  • The most important defense is to deny focus fire.
• Blocking:
  • The effect on Kylo is not as bad as on other aces due to his force (though which ace doesn't have force or free focus...). So even a good block and 4 shots will not do too much, maybe 2 damage.
  • A block on any of my ships or the FOs is brutal. You want at least that one focus.

Thoughts?

I'd think FO lists with a lot of PT thrown around will just default to debris. ( @RStan ?) Assuming that, I think I'd want to try to dump them on my side. The engagement seems unlikely to travel down to that area very often. Other than that, yeah, I think you need to try to remove TIEs and hope you have numbers against Kylo in the end game. I think FO, in general, is going to be pretty good in Hyperspace and all those 3-agility ships will be tough to burn through with two-dice guns. This match-up would probably be decided on limiting Kylo's effectiveness (good luck!).

5 minutes ago, gennataos said:

I'd think FO lists with a lot of PT thrown around will just default to debris. ( @RStan ?) Assuming that, I think I'd want to try to dump them on my side. The engagement seems unlikely to travel down to that area very often. Other than that, yeah, I think you need to try to remove TIEs and hope you have numbers against Kylo in the end game. I think FO, in general, is going to be pretty good in Hyperspace and all those 3-agility ships will be tough to burn through with two-dice guns. This match-up would probably be decided on limiting Kylo's effectiveness (good luck!).

ALL DEBRIS ALL THE TIME. PROUD BOIS CARE NOT FOR DEBRIS. WE ARE FOCUSED. WE ARE TRADITION. WE ARE THE FIRST ORDER!

Just now, RStan said:

ALL DEBRIS ALL THE TIME. PROUD BOIS CARE NOT FOR SIMPLE DEBRIS. WE ARE FOCUSED. WE ARE TRADITION. WE ARE THE FIRST ORDER!

All. The. Time.

7 minutes ago, gennataos said:

Assuming that, I think I'd want to try to dump them on my side. The engagement seems unlikely to travel down to that area very often.

I am not sure whether they still like it less than me or not. Hm..

Proud FO swarm is a good reason to bring large rocks alone.

Agree with win condition, though at times you'll be taking shots at Kylo and if you get lucky be ready to switch target priority if you can get Kylo to half.

Never joust, the FOs really want that. Hit and run, try to stay unstressed to allow the 3 turn focus rotate as an option.

I have personally yet to try Kylo + 4 Proud Omegas because I've been working on a Holo or Avenger + 3 Proud FOs (one of them normally Muse), Rivas and Cadet. I think including the i1s in a list is pretty underrated. They provide spacing and blocking ahead of the Proud FOs. Kylo and 4 i3 Omegas don't have this capability. Granted Kylo is a MUCH better endgame, but the utility of Holo and the Silencer chassis on Avenger ability can scare some players from going after a killing blow on a FO.

Sorry if I missed it, is there a latest and best version of 5A? Guess there are a lot of possibilities now.

I'm giving up on Poe + AAA I think, it's just not good.

On 1/22/2020 at 11:55 AM, GreenDragoon said:

• Zizi Tallie Greer Ronith 1Blue : no optics on Tallie, but has the advantage of 2 i5

• Zizi Greer Ronith 2 Blues : only i5i4, but has the advantage of 2 blockers and all have and can use optics

• Zizi Tallie Greer 2 Blues : only 4 heroics and no Ronith, but has the advantage of 2i5 and 5x optics and 2 blockers

Take your pick

20 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

Take your pick

none.

I'm playing Zizi Tallie Zari two blues, all have optics and heroic.

Zari is a boss if you are fine running into things.

2 hours ago, ayedubbleyoo said:

I'm giving up on Poe + AAA I think, it's just not good.

I don't agree it's not good, but I do feel 5A is better than Poe + 3A. He's really hard to protect with 3 A-Wings and the list seems to need to fly pretty cagey.

35 minutes ago, gennataos said:

I don't agree it's not good, but I do feel 5A is better than Poe + 3A. He's really hard to protect with 3 A-Wings and the list seems to need to fly pretty cagey.

I like the idea of it, just every time I try to bring him in to attack he gives up half points and I lose.

I had 50 games with imperial aces before FFG nuked them out of hyperspace, so I’m back with the resistance and looking for a System Open list.

36 minutes ago, gennataos said:

I don't agree it's not good, but I do feel 5A is better than Poe + 3A. He's really hard to protect with 3 A-Wings and the list seems to need to fly pretty cagey.

Totally agree. Poe and 3A isn't bad, it's just that 5A may be a little better.

There are usually a few turns during a game with Poe where he spends the turn running.

Every turn Poe spends running he's not shooting, which leaves the three A-Wings as the only ships shooting.

In a five A-Wing list, usually all five A-Wings are shooting every turn.

I'd think five A-Wings shooting would be a little better than three A-Wings shooting, assuming Poe is shooting roughly half the time.

18 minutes ago, ayedubbleyoo said:

every time I try to bring him in to attack he gives up half points and I lose.

Sounds about right.

18 minutes ago, ayedubbleyoo said:

I had 50 games with imperial aces before FFG nuked them out of hyperspace, so I’m back with the resistance and looking for a System Open list.

I'm....not sad for you.

11 minutes ago, underling said:

Totally agree. Poe and 3A isn't bad, it's just that 5A may be a little better.

There are usually a few turns during a game with Poe where he spends the turn running.

Every turn Poe spends running he's not shooting, which leaves the three A-Wings as the only ships shooting.

In a five A-Wing list, usually all five A-Wings are shooting every turn.

I'd think five A-Wings shooting would be a little better than three A-Wings shooting, assuming Poe is shooting roughly half the time.

You'd think at this point I'd have already figured this out, but I'm finding good individual pieces aren't necessarily good/great together. I think Poe + 3A is just that and maybe always has been.

I'm going to urge against calling FO lists "Proud Boys". That's a hate group through and through, and while the First Order is facsists all the same, please. I do not want a list I may fly to be called Proud Boys.