2 hours ago, doweaver said:

Made it out of LCQ with these bad boys 🙂

Got on GSP second round and really sweated a match against an Emon/Zuvio/Graz with all sorts of shenanigans. My only loss was to Vader/Echo/Sai, and that came down to a crit pull by the shuttle on the last round (wasn’t a direct 😭 ), despite me flying a full health Greer off the table. Hey, @doweaver, if the angle looks bad, maybe don’t just assume that a hard turn will keep you on the board because it “should”.

Definitely couldn’t have done it without the massive learnings I took from this thread. Cheers, all!

Congrats! I saw your stream round, was fun to watch. Good luck going forward!

2 hours ago, doweaver said:

Made it out of LCQ with these bad boys 🙂

Got on GSP second round and really sweated a match against an Emon/Zuvio/Graz with all sorts of shenanigans. My only loss was to Vader/Echo/Sai, and that came down to a crit pull by the shuttle on the last round (wasn’t a direct 😭 ), despite me flying a full health Greer off the table. Hey, @doweaver, if the angle looks bad, maybe don’t just assume that a hard turn will keep you on the board because it “should”.

Definitely couldn’t have done it without the massive learnings I took from this thread. Cheers, all!

I also saw your game, well done and congrats on advancing!

Welp they’re still ok

4A+Finn @ Hyperspace Trial October, 2019
______

My performance was pretty awful at this tournament.. .. Top 16 ( correction , top 8 ), but against a very small field. The whole day felt cursed, as I only played against 1 person I didn't know. 😕

4A+Finn was good....

I wanted to share some field testing reactions:

______

-I personally believe Finn is an auto-include for 4+ ship Resistance lists in Season 2 of Hyperspace Trials. If you are flying efficiency Resistance or anything remotely Mid-range, Finn feels like the correct choice every time (however, congrats to our Euro brother who took traditional 5A to worlds top 16. That was amazing.)

_______

-light-Finn should probably be in your efficiency list before any A-Wing except maybe Greer. I think there's a solid argument for even a fat-Finn in most 3 or 4 ship Resistance lists, before any T70 as well.

____________

-Don't bring Tallie with 5A unless you are extremely confident in your setups and ability to not self-bump in the scrum - this can be surprisingly difficult. With my lack of practice, I should've saved a point and took a Green Sqdrn. instead.

________

-I took Intimidation Heroic Zari with no Optics, and only recall one roll in the entire tournament where I missed having optics on her.

__________

-That said, Intimidation would've triggered 1-4 times a game with Tallie if I'd put that on her instead of Optics, but I will say that did use Optics (at correct moments) with her more than I thought I would.

-Greer wants Elusive or Trick shot real bad if you can swing it (on top of Optics for a total 44/45 point build)

-The I3 Green was helpful over the I1 blue in only one of my matchups, but that's only because I dodged DroidSwarm and there were no SinkerSwarms. Its a coin toss/meta call. I personally think the blocking value of the I1 means almost nothing in my local meta, and taking Finn for a discount was by far the right call.

__________

-Bid is the wrong choice for this Squad in my meta where squads are bidding more than 3 points regularly. My 2-point bid was so I could beat all the "accidental" 199 bidders, but I'd rather have had 2 more cracks. Also, this is a ship/squad that just got a points increase...why am I scrounging for every point in this list when 4 Vipers are bidding four points without trying?!!!!! Just run it at 200 and plan to move first.

___________

-And last, but not least: Elusive . Just Elusive. My three/four greens were rolling single paint all day. " Just....one...more!!!.... "

I get it. "But you never want to red-turn these guys!". I know. But all I need is ONE helpful reroll that one stupid time I roll one paint. If I never recharge it and it saved me a damage, it was worth it. Yes, worth it even at three points a pop. (Commence listing and points scrounging for days....)

__________

summary:

Pattern Analyzer Finn was clutch, but he needs to be kept alive to contribute. The games I lost him in one round of combat were the games I lost - the games he shot more than once I was good.

RZ2s are still great, but it's easy to lose at the last second if you don't have the reps and fly them correctly to preserve MOV.

EDIT:

it was awesome to meet @gennataos , and totally made my day that he won the trial with Poe+2. Made an otherwise disappointing day a whole lot better.

ITS THE RESISTANCE!!!!!!!!!!!

1 hour ago, Bucknife said:

-Bid is the wrong choice for this Squad in my meta where squads are bidding more than 3 points regularly. My 2-point bid was so I could beat all the "accidental" 199 bidders, but I'd rather have had 2 more cracks. Also, this is a ship/squad that just got a points increase...why am I scrounging for every point in this list when 4 Vipers are bidding four points without trying?!!!!! Just run it at 200 and plan to move first.

I didn't get the chance to play you, but it would've been fun. I've not run your specific build, but have run five As, usually with Heroic and Optics.

I may switch up the pilots on occasion, but I usually just run five Greens. It's easier for me not having to worry as much about sequencing.

I guess my thinking is two points doesn't really get you much, so just load out to 200.

And yep... it's tough having a four point bid without trying.

Although if the points do eventually go up, I'd still run the vipers without Crack Shot, even at 200.

@Bucknife - It was a pleasure to meet you, hopefully get to see each other more! 10/10 great guy, would recommend! Come to Warfaire Weekend!....#beckon

1 hour ago, Bucknife said:

4A+Finn @ Hyperspace Trial October, 2019
______

My performance was pretty awful at this tournament.. .. Top 16, but against a very small field. The whole day felt cursed, as I only played against 1 person I didn't know. 😕

4A+Finn was good....

I wanted to share some field testing reactions:

______

-I personally believe Finn is an auto-include for 4+ ship Resistance lists in Season 2 of Hyperspace Trials. If you are flying efficiency Resistance or anything remotely Mid-range, Finn feels like the correct choice every time (however, congrats to our Euro brother who took traditional 5A to worlds top 16. That was amazing.)

_______

-light-Finn should probably be in your efficiency list before any A-Wing except maybe Greer. I think there's a solid argument for even a fat-Finn in most 3 or 4 ship Resistance lists, before any T70 as well.

____________

-Don't bring Tallie with 5A unless you are extremely confident in your setups and ability to not self-bump in the scrum - this can be surprisingly difficult. With my lack of practice, I should've saved a point and took a Green Sqdrn. instead.

________

-I took Intimidation Heroic Zari with no Optics, and only recall one roll in the entire tournament where I missed having optics on her.

__________

-That said, Intimidation would've triggered 1-4 times a game with Tallie if I'd put that on her instead of Optics, but I will say that did use Optics (at correct moments) with her more than I thought I would.

-Greer wants Elusive or Trick shot real bad if you can swing it.

-The I3 Green was helpful over the I1 blue in only one of my matchups, but that's only because I dodged DroidSwarm and there were no SinkerSwarms. Its a coin toss/meta call. I personally think the blocking value of the I1 means almost nothing in my local meta, and taking Finn for a discount was by far the right call.

__________

-Bid is the wrong choice for this Squad in my meta where squads are bidding more than 3 points regularly. My 2-point bid was so I could beat all the "accidental" 199 bidders, but I'd rather have had 2 more cracks. Also, this is a ship/squad that just got a points increase...why am I scrounging for every point in this list when 4 Vipers are bidding four points without trying?!!!!! Just run it at 200 and plan to move first.

___________

-And last, but not least: Eusive. Just Elusive.

__________

summary:

Pattern Analyzer Finn was clutch, but he needs to be kept alive to contribute. The games I lost him in one round of combat were the games I lost - the games he shot more than once I was good.

RZ2s are still great, but it's easy to lose at the last second if you don't have the reps and fly them correctly to preserve MOV.

EDIT:

it was awesome to meet @gennataos , and totally made my day that he won the trial with Poe+2. Made an otherwise disappointing day a whole lot better.

ITS THE RESISTANCE!!!!!!!!!!!

Hmmm cool it works for you I don’t neccesarily agree with most points but it’s a very open meta and i truly think that it’s more about flying than specific build.

I am very surprised with your talli conclusion, for me having ps5 is a great advantage, same with optics, i think the time on target without them is too slow.

I really think flying/potential bumping may be an issue due to having Finn around and that forces you to fly in a more stacked way.

The possible advantage of trickshot/elusive over adv optic? I’ve tried trickshot and trying to pull off it to procc has put me in too many bad situations, i imagine so would elusive.

I would never put any Finn over A-wing in 5A list. Everything he does can be done better with an Awing in multi A list. I see his amazing potential in mixed lists (by mixed i mean things like snap/jess/finn/bastian, or Calens list) but not in mono ship, from my perspective he only slows them down, i’ve flown with 5a vs 4AFinn list couple times, and it wasn’t hard to put opposing player in 5v4 situations or isolate single ships. Also bumped finn = dead finn.

Dual I1 over 1I3 and I1. I find dual I1 actually better vs sinker swarms and especially CIS swarms. Droid swarms have 2 bad options - 2blockers or 5Aces, also droid kills come from last shot / shots = I1 meaning calculate rain is falling right before cleanup and nobody gains anything from it.

p.s. Top 8

If I didn't have such a Finn-esque man-crush on Poe, I'm pretty sure I'd be flying 5A exclusively, as @kenoslaw has detailed above and elsewhere on the thread. I played it at GenCon and don't doubt I'd have been able to make the cut with reps against a few archetypes I didn't plan for, but ran into in the cut. Specifically CIS swarms, they hadn't caught on until right around then.

@Bucknife - I think if you find yourself bumping a lot with Tallie, you're not making enough use out of your rear arc. A-Wings are rarely ever forced to opt in to an engagement. I honestly think you're working too hard to add some shenanigans to a list which actually succeeds on efficiency and time on target.

HYPE!

Zizi looks like Greer levels of amazing, potentially the best RZ2 and Ronith looks great within 5A lists also.

1 hour ago, RStan said:

HYPE!

Zizi looks like Greer levels of amazing, potentially the best RZ2 and Ronith looks great within 5A lists also.

They both look great. Who knows on points, but rest assured my first list with Zizi will have all I5 RZ-2s and it'll irritate the **** out of my locals.

55 minutes ago, gennataos said:

They both look great. Who knows on points, but rest assured my first list with Zizi will have all I5 RZ-2s and it'll irritate the **** out of my locals.

Being one of your locals I am all in on this as well. I love the I5 A's, I just haven't escaped from my Gunboats just yet.

22 minutes ago, Arboghasthero said:

Being one of your locals I am all in on this as well. I love the I5 A's, I just haven't escaped from my Gunboats just yet.

I wasn't able to escape them either.

Those new A-Wings really have me looking at 5A again. HARD.

What obstacles are/were people using with 5A? @kenoslaw , I saw you brought rocks or debris to worlds (not sure which). Any particular reason why?

@GreenDragoon

@RStan

@Micanthropyre

@gennataos I don't recall exactly what I had when I did run 5A, but I ran it before wave 3 which means it likely changes. I'd probably go with the smallest 3 debris. Not touching gas clouds because that makes the matchup against Jedi & Imp aces worse and I don't want large rocks/debris because of struts. Rocks aren't great to bring vs Nantex either.

21 hours ago, gennataos said:

What obstacles are/were people using with 5A?

I'd go with debris now, mainly because of Jedi, Sepratatists and other aces (Vader with Afterburners). Plus, debris is the least consequential for A-wings for two reasons: they will be able to move blue (so the stress part won't matter), and they are less likely to lose HP.

Not being shot at from rebel beef does is not a factor anymore. Maybe that's the main difference now? I'm not sure to be honest

I got in some 5A and Snap + 3 yesterday.

First, immediately didn't like Snap + 3 (L'ulo, Tallie, Greer with loaded out Snap). A forward-facing arc in combo with so many A-Wing turrets feels incredibly limiting. He has to engage by flying at stuff, which means the A-Wings want to fly at stuff, too, or kind of leave Snap out to fend for himself (or disengage for a long time). It's probably a similar feeling to slotting in Finn with 4A a while back. I only gave it one game, but that was enough to say "no". It didn't feel right.

I played three 5A games, admittedly against some non-optimized lists, and it felt great. After doing a lot of 2-3 ship lists, it felt so liberating and powerful to have 5 ships that can just kind of do whatever they want. I'm trying this variant. It actually averages slightly higher damage output than the "main" version @kenoslaw runs, albeit with possibly lower valleys. It feels like L'ulo can win some games just by showing up.

L'ulo L'ampar (43)
Crack Shot (1)
Heroic (1)

Ship total: 45 Half Points: 23 Threshold: 2

Tallissan Lintra (36)
Crack Shot (1)
Heroic (1)

Ship total: 38 Half Points: 19 Threshold: 2

Greer Sonnel (36)
Heroic (1)
Advanced Optics (4)

Ship total: 41 Half Points: 21 Threshold: 2

Blue Squadron Recruit (33)
Heroic (1)
Advanced Optics (4)

Ship total: 38 Half Points: 19 Threshold: 2

Blue Squadron Recruit (33)
Heroic (1)
Advanced Optics (4)

Ship total: 38 Half Points: 19 Threshold: 2

Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Resistance&d=v8ZsZ200Z239X116W172WWY240X116W172WWY270X172WWW186Y301X172WW186Y301X172WW186&sn=A-Wing swarm&obs=

On 12/25/2019 at 5:12 PM, gennataos said:

What obstacles are/were people using with 5A? @kenoslaw , I saw you brought rocks or debris to worlds (not sure which). Any particular reason why?

@GreenDragoon

@RStan

@Micanthropyre

Right now i’m using big debris clouds, same at worlds, jedi and separatists are the main reasons for that, i’ve been blindsided couple times by anakin boosting off a rock 😛

20 hours ago, gennataos said:

I got in some 5A and Snap + 3 yesterday.

First, immediately didn't like Snap + 3 (L'ulo, Tallie, Greer with loaded out Snap). A forward-facing arc in combo with so many A-Wing turrets feels incredibly limiting. He has to engage by flying at stuff, which means the A-Wings want to fly at stuff, too, or kind of leave Snap out to fend for himself (or disengage for a long time). It's probably a similar feeling to slotting in Finn with 4A a while back. I only gave it one game, but that was enough to say "no". It didn't feel right.

I played three 5A games, admittedly against some non-optimized lists, and it felt great. After doing a lot of 2-3 ship lists, it felt so liberating and powerful to have 5 ships that can just kind of do whatever they want. I'm trying this variant. It actually averages slightly higher damage output than the "main" version @kenoslaw runs, albeit with possibly lower valleys. It feels like L'ulo can win some games just by showing up.

L'ulo L'ampar (43)
Crack Shot (1)
Heroic (1)

Ship total: 45 Half Points: 23 Threshold: 2

Tallissan Lintra (36)
Crack Shot (1)
Heroic (1)

Ship total: 38 Half Points: 19 Threshold: 2

Greer Sonnel (36)
Heroic (1)
Advanced Optics (4)

Ship total: 41 Half Points: 21 Threshold: 2

Blue Squadron Recruit (33)
Heroic (1)
Advanced Optics (4)

Ship total: 38 Half Points: 19 Threshold: 2

Blue Squadron Recruit (33)
Heroic (1)
Advanced Optics (4)

Ship total: 38 Half Points: 19 Threshold: 2

Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Resistance&d=v8ZsZ200Z239X116W172WWY240X116W172WWY270X172WWW186Y301X172WW186Y301X172WW186&sn=A-Wing swarm&obs=

Thats list is the one i’ve won UK GC with (with advanced optics ofc 😛 but same pilots). I’m waiting for new pilots points and new points in general, really hoping for 2xI5 and Greer again, although i must say the more games i play the more shenanigans i see for zari ;D still, you may be right about lulo winning games on himself, but i remember him having „biggs effect” also.

4 hours ago, kenoslaw said:

Right now i’m using big debris clouds, same at worlds, jedi and separatists are the main reasons for that, i’ve been blindsided couple times by anakin boosting off a rock 😛

Thats list is the one i’ve won UK GC with (with advanced optics ofc 😛 but same pilots). I’m waiting for new pilots points and new points in general, really hoping for 2xI5 and Greer again, although i must say the more games i play the more shenanigans i see for zari ;D still, you may be right about lulo winning games on himself, but i remember him having „biggs effect” also.

If I can get Zizi in that Zari/L’ulo slot and include at least a fourth optics, I think I’d be very happy.

Okay, maybe L’ulo just loses some games, too. Played a little 3-round kit tourney today and it wasn’t great. Some mistakes on my side, for sure, but L’ulo is a liability against stuff moving after him. Sad.

14 hours ago, gennataos said:

Okay, maybe L’ulo just loses some games, too. Played a little 3-round kit tourney today and it wasn’t great. Some mistakes on my side, for sure, but L’ulo is a liability against stuff moving after him. Sad.

The moment i dropped lulo due to points changes, my awing flying became less single pilot reliant. Losing 1 Awing has become less of a problem, while Lulo has to put dmg through as early as possible as he usually is the one to go down first, so from my perspective entire approach is different with lulo in the picture.

3 hours ago, kenoslaw said:

The moment i dropped lulo due to points changes, my awing flying became less single pilot reliant. Losing 1 Awing has become less of a problem, while Lulo has to put dmg through as early as possible as he usually is the one to go down first, so from my perspective entire approach is different with lulo in the picture.

Yeah, I agree. I ran the 5/4/3/1/1 version at GenCon and it felt good. I wanted to try L'ulo to see how it changes things, and it changes the approach of the list a little too much. I do think L'ulo is still great in the right list, but not 5A.

I think I've already landed where @GreenDragoon did with 5A...force users make me not want to run it. Multiple games where I block most of the opposing list most of the game and it doesn't end up mattering much not only makes me want to bounce off 5A, but X-Wing in general. I don't have @kenoslaw 's skill to continue down this path, but kudos to any who do.

34 minutes ago, gennataos said:

I think I've already landed where @GreenDragoon did with 5A...force users make me not want to run it. Multiple games where I block most of the opposing list most of the game and it doesn't end up mattering much not only makes me want to bounce off 5A, but X-Wing in general. I don't have @kenoslaw 's skill to continue down this path, but kudos to any who do.

@RStan might be the other person to play it on a high enough level. I don't know who else. Which makes it all the more frustrating when it is still mentioned as top list, even though many if not most people have been struggling for what is now what, 9 months (!)?

Personally I should just go to Vader Soontir/Inq Duchess/Whisper depending on format. Massive trainingwheels with 4-6 force in the list, ace play, boosts and tons of repositioning. It is a game I enjoy, even if I'm convinced it's a bad trajectory. The forays into PoeRey, XXA, and the cool 5 ship FO were fun. But all of them seem to voluntarily fight one armed.

But let's see what happens in a week.