Because of rz2 dual arc i prefer rebel As with snap jukes (3 of them and sidekick - Cassian/Juke/Ion Sabine or Leia Heff or Wedge)

14 hours ago, N'Kata said:

So, has anyone tried Snap Shots on the RZ-2s? Five Blue Squadron Recruits with Snap is 200 points on the nose, but do you think that Heroic+Advanced optics is a better option? One could also fit four Green Squadron Experts with Snap Shot and Juke, but I am afraid 49 points is a bit too much for those fragile A-wings?

Any thoughts?

I've been experimenting with Juke on the RZ2s for some months.

Heroic+Juke is decent, but only if you're really pounding the offense from one or two other sources.

Snap is amazing for the Resistance As because they can essentially cover both front and back zones at the same time.

Unfortunately, for competitions, RZ2s need to be kept light on spamming and not fat.

If they had a cheaper ship...like 3 Pods, you could conceivably run 2 fat As.

I love flying a-wings!

Is 5A deads in a Finn Meta?

Why would I ever take a 38 pt Recruit over a 30pt Finn, especially when blocking doesn't matter against Nantex?

Why would I take Lulo over an R4+Heroic Cova?

Is the new 5A really 3A+Pod+Transport?

I get the mobility of the RZ2s, I'm just struggling to justify 5A over the latter mixed bag in my headsims...

Does anyone ( @Rytackle ) have any input here?

I've run a Lulo+Tallie+Greer+Cova+Finn list to some success already...

3 hours ago, Bucknife said:

Is 5A deads in a Finn Meta?

Why would I ever take a 38 pt Recruit over a 30pt Finn, especially when blocking doesn't matter against Nantex?

Why would I take Lulo over an R4+Heroic Cova?

Is the new 5A really 3A+Pod+Transport?

I get the mobility of the RZ2s, I'm just struggling to justify 5A over the latter mixed bag in my headsims...

Does anyone ( @Rytackle ) have any input here?

I've run a Lulo+Tallie+Greer+Cova+Finn list to some success already...

why do you think these things?

3 hours ago, Bucknife said:

Is 5A deads in a Finn Meta?

Why would I ever take a 38 pt Recruit over a 30pt Finn, especially when blocking doesn't matter against Nantex?

Why would I take Lulo over an R4+Heroic Cova?

Is the new 5A really 3A+Pod+Transport?

I get the mobility of the RZ2s, I'm just struggling to justify 5A over the latter mixed bag in my headsims...

Does anyone ( @Rytackle ) have any input here?

I've run a Lulo+Tallie+Greer+Cova+Finn list to some success already...

@Rytackle s list is good but i find 5A better. I’ve tried pod over Awing, but awings are better in this setup. Also you have to add patter analyzer, percpetive, heroic... and suddenly he’s not that cheap, also recent faq stopped strainless defence loophole.

5A thrash Nantex.

1 hour ago, GreenDragoon said:

why do you think these things?

Finn's stats (at 35 pts with Heroic and PA) VS an I1 Optics Recruit at 38.

It seems really obviously wrong not to take Finn instead.

It's hard to believe that RZ2 dial and swap-arc is worth 3 points and -1 initiative against all the Vultures in the field right now.

Please fill me in if you think otherwise!

@kenoslaw , my head sims VS Sun Fac are not pretty... But my first run against him and my As won't likely be until the trial in a couple weeks. Hence the shout-out...

7 minutes ago, Bucknife said:

It's hard to believe that RZ2 dial and swap-arc is worth 3 points and -1 initiative against all the Vultures in the field right now.

In this list, the A-Wing is better against the meta field. Unless it's meta-specific to your area, don't overestimate the number of CIS players that'll show and definitely don't overestimate them being any good.

4 minutes ago, Bucknife said:

Finn's stats (at 35 pts with Heroic and PA) VS an I1 Optics Recruit at 38.

It seems really obviously wrong not to take Finn instead.

It's hard to believe that RZ2 dial and swap-arc is worth 3 points and -1 initiative against all the Vultures in the field right now.

Please fill me in if you think otherwise.

Two points:

1. Finn does not fit with A-wings because he moves so differently. Ken and I reached that conclusion independent of each other btw. It is also why XXXBigdeal was so much nicer than XXXx because Lulo and later Tallie has a tougher time fitting in with the rest. Not that it can't work - it's just not quite as good. In the case of XXXx and XXXBigdeal the list is very different overall and the A-wing is the odd one out. But the take away is that the overall list has to fit, and 4A +Finn does not.

2. IMO Finn is "dead", not the Awings. I don't see a reason to keep using Finn. I'm not saying he's bad, but instead that he's not too good anymore and just ok. The XXXBigdeal list is still ok, but that's it. 5A on the other hand just found a new friend in the enemy of an enemy. That is, they do not have a much problem against Nantex as the rest. And they are paper to the largebase-rocks that beat the nantex-scissors.

I think it's important to look at what all the different options bring to the table. One of the reasons I feel pretty strongly about Finn is that he is providing 3 dice firepower for a pretty substantial bargain. One of the weaknesses of all these A-Wings is that it can be really tough to get that haymaker against 3 defense dice. The longer they focus on Finn, the better for you.

Not to say finn is 100% the correct choice, but As can struggle against 3 defense dices. I've had several games where 2 of my As strip tokens off something and Finn punches with 3 hits. Just my 2 cents.

Please keep @-ing me on this this as I'm legit interested in chatting more.

If you guys had to choose between Heroic or Crack on them which would you pick?

46 minutes ago, Rytackle said:

If you guys had to choose between Heroic or Crack on them which would you pick?

Heroic, for sure.

Crack is nice if it happens, but mostly as Boba/Han insurance.

Good points on their output difficulty vs high agility targets.

I typically find my RZ2s gravitating towards the easy damage in any matchup.

ARCs, B-Wings, anything with 1 agility to nab some points.

3 hours ago, Rytackle said:

If you guys had to choose between Heroic or Crack on them which would you pick?

Assuming Optics is included, Heroic for sure.

1 hour ago, gennataos said:

Assuming Optics is included, Heroic for sure.

I really wish Trick Shot wasn't 4 points as of wave ...3, I think?

I'd take Trick+Heroic RZ2s if Trick Shot was back down to 2 or 3 points and consider just dropping Op tics to save a dime on these guys as fillers. ...

7 hours ago, Rytackle said:

If you guys had to choose between Heroic or Crack on them which would you pick?

There's a short discussion of this a few pages back. If you were a scrub like me, crackshot is a great additional crutch to punch damage through with the 2dice. If you are as good as Bartosz, then the bid is more important.

But I'd always go with Heroic first if i could choose only one, for the defensive benefit of a guaranteed survived 4dice shot.

10 hours ago, Bucknife said:

Finn's stats (at 35 pts with Heroic and PA) VS an I1 Optics Recruit at 38.

It seems really obviously wrong not to take Finn instead.

It's hard to believe that RZ2 dial and swap-arc is worth 3 points and -1 initiative against all the Vultures in the field right now.

Please fill me in if you think otherwise!

@kenoslaw , my head sims VS Sun Fac are not pretty... But my first run against him and my As won't likely be until the trial in a couple weeks. Hence the shout-out...

In my book RZ2 is an Vulture killer, i lost a single game vs Sep swarm with Awings, it was with Maul and 6 drones pre points change, because that was my first game vs CIS clutch thing is called 5 straight boost and vultures pop like ballons. You just have to time your engage right and strafe in from different angles so that Seps have to spread fire. Usually you trade 1 Awing for 2 drones, follow up is 5S/3Banks/3Hards focus rotate and kill 2/3 more drones.

With Finn - he stays behind with 4 As so you have to play around him and that makes my Awings predictable. I think I mentioned that I try to mimic fish when flying Awings really:

vs Sun Fac - vs Awings he is worse version of Fenn Rau, with a limited reposition options, catching him r2-3 is key, also strafe running through him later is important.

(shout-out to all the folks in this thread - I'm really enjoying our little A-Wing community ❤️ )

Took 5A to a HST yesterday and ended up 3-3. Best part of the day was definitely my friend dubbing the list Area 51 - "they can't traactor us all!" 😂

Feeling a bit discouraged about the list (okay, it's not the lists fault), but still barely above water over the last couple HSTS (7-5), so will probably stick with it for the Last Chance Qualifier, where I think just being above .500 will get me out.

Want to write up more detailed battle reports, but a short summary for now.

Lost to 7B Plo/7B Obi/Ric (all with regen) 20-0. This match is a STRUGGLE. Traded a shield on Plo early for a shield on one of my As, and then I tried to catch him with blocks, but he 5 straighted away to regen (as of course he would!). Need to bank on that happening ALWAYS with Jedi. In the end, he sniped Tallie

Lost to QD/Blackout/Tavson because I made the mistake I've made before (what's learning, precious?) of spreading fire around, so Tavson was a couple damage from half, and QD + Blackout were both a couple damage from being destroyed. Multiple times in that game I just straight up declined to shoot things. I think it was still the right decision in retrospect, but need to think about that.

Lost to Sun Fac/Grievous/Dooku. I dealt a damaged engine crit to Sun Fac on the first engage, which is frankly such a bad crit for him that I really need to re-evaluate this game. I underestimated him immediately thereafter and he tractored and exploded Zari - should've just turned away. This game featured my first HEROIC on defense into three more blanks, which my opponent and I both had a good laugh over. I then immediately HEROIC'd two blank reds into two more blank reds 😂 Heroic is so fun - I love that card.

Overall, I don't feel like I've been doing a great job with my crackshots. I've been opening like:

I1 I1 -------------- I4 ------------- I3 I5

Which means Zari + Talli (who have the crackshots) are engaging from the same side and so it feels kind of like a "win more" deployment. I could swap a Blue and Zari (so have Zari + a Blue on one side and Talli + a Blue on the other), but having the freedom of moving the I1s together feels too good to pass up.

Any word from Tim from Liverpool?

I'd be interested in how his matchups went that day!

EDiT:

Good showing, @doweaver (Doug)!

Thanks for the report. I'll be flying Area 51 (I call it "Extreme Days", at the Springfield Missouri Hyperspace on Oct19th (the weekend of worlds), and I'll do my best to post results when I do, but I'm sure it'll be outshined by Worlds data either way.

It’s insane to consider swapping optics on Talli for ion missiles, right? Man, I hate Jedi...

EDIT: Yes, it’s insane. I’m not going to get to lock anything I care about anyway

1 hour ago, doweaver said:

It’s insane to consider swapping optics on Talli for ion missiles, right? Man, I hate Jedi...

EDIT: Yes, it’s insane. I’m not going to get to lock anything I care about anyway

Jedi love taking insulting target locks.

Resistance has FerroPaint.

.... believe me, I've tried.

You lose so much offense in your squad just to have a pseudo-helpful occasional matchup advantage.

It just doesn't make sense with Optics at 4 points.

I think Paint should be 4 or 5.

Optics should be 5, or at least two missiles need to come down to 3.

Trick would also be a real choice if it was at 3 instead of 4 so we could save a point on the Optics build by using 3pt trick instead.

Gosh. I could go on and on. I've built literally hundreds of Resistance lists during each points season... I've only had the time to play about 1-5% of those lists, but I still know all the choices and am sad that there really is only a couple real choices right now for Resistance and RZ2s.

14 hours ago, Bucknife said:

Thanks for the report. I'll be flying Area 51 (I call it "Extreme Days", at the Springfield Missouri Hyperspace on Oct19th (the weekend of worlds), and I'll do my best to post results when I do, but I'm sure it'll be outshined by Worlds data either way.

Wait, have I met you? Mark Myers from the St. Louis area. I'm thinking about heading to that one as well.

13 hours ago, doweaver said:

It’s insane to consider swapping optics on Talli for ion missiles, right? Man, I hate Jedi...

EDIT: Yes, it’s insane. I’m not going to get to lock anything I care about anyway

I've actually gone down the Ion Missile path for A-Wings...it does pretty much nothing. I think in 4-5 games against various lists, I never ioned anything.

My biggest "problem" with 5A is just that every game feels like a looooong war of attrition. I've never had a 5A game not go to time. Having to be "on" for a full day of swiss really does feel like work.

1 hour ago, gennataos said:

Wait, have I met you? Mark Myers from the St. Louis area. I'm thinking about heading to that one as well.

I've actually gone down the Ion Missile path for A-Wings...it does pretty much nothing. I think in 4-5 games against various lists, I never ioned anything.

My biggest "problem" with 5A is just that every game feels like a looooong war of attrition. I've never had a 5A game not go to time. Having to be "on" for a full day of swiss really does feel like work.

I usually have games with very quick end, but saying that i have a very aggressive playstyle which when anticipated can be a disadvantage for aggressor 😜 again, like i've said so many times, for me X-wing is like poker, at one point you have to go balls deep all-in

@gennataos , maybe!

I'm Kyle. Some people call me "Katarn", though.

I was at the Independence MO Trial a couple months ago and met a few Arch Alliance guys.

I remember Bob, I think, who beat me with Han+Wedge+Luke in game 6.

I was flying Jess and the Reds.

Finally got my 5th RZ2 and am ready to give it a go!

Don't think I can make it to Warfaire weekend, unfortunately.

4 minutes ago, Bucknife said:

@gennataos , maybe!

I'm Kyle. Some people call me "Katarn", though.

I was at the Independence MO Trial a couple months ago and met a few Arch Alliance guys.

I remember Bob, I think, who beat me with Han+Wedge+Luke in game 6.

I was flying Jess and the Reds.

Finally got my 5th RZ2 and am ready to give it a go!

Don't think I can make it to Warfaire weekend, unfortunately.

Ah! Okay, don't think we've met, then. Bob is one of my regular playing partners.

Sad about Warfaire. If I make it to Springfield, I'll seek you out.

A friend told me about a match against 4 A's with snap and juke. He called it "Death by Papercut"

Made it out of LCQ with these bad boys 🙂

Got on GSP second round and really sweated a match against an Emon/Zuvio/Graz with all sorts of shenanigans. My only loss was to Vader/Echo/Sai, and that came down to a crit pull by the shuttle on the last round (wasn’t a direct 😭 ), despite me flying a full health Greer off the table. Hey, @doweaver, if the angle looks bad, maybe don’t just assume that a hard turn will keep you on the board because it “should”.

Definitely couldn’t have done it without the massive learnings I took from this thread. Cheers, all!