Greetings, Deathwatch fans!
This week, my designer diary discusses the fourth Space Marine Chapter of the Deathwatch RPG . Enjoy!
New Deathwatch Designer Diary: Chapters of the Deathwatch, Part 4
Cheers Ross!
I'm glad they picked the Black Templars over things like the Imperial Fists. It makes a lot of sense to have a crusading Chapter amongst those Deathwatch involved in a crusade, and they are a lot more characterful, in my opinion, to the Imperial and Crimson Fists.
Still, looking forward to the Blood Angels being announced
I really hope that we will get some more nonconformist chapters. Because right now we have three chapters that are quite conservative and one that is different. It would be a pity if the Space Wolves remained the sole chapter that isn't by-the-book (Blood Angels aren't really divergent).
Come on now, with a brand new Codex and the art for DW showing a Blood Angel since day 1, how can you now expect them not to be there ? It's still GW we are talking about.
Haven't you realized all the chapters so far have their own Codex ? Guess who's next =P Maybe the'll show an unknown specifically made chapter for FFG to toy with (like they did for DoW and Blood Ravens) BUT Blood Angels are sure to be there.
Lucius Valerius said:
Haven't you realized all the chapters so far have their own Codex ? Guess who's next =P
Exactly. We might just as well skip the BA step and go for the thing that we really want to know: the "mystery Chapter number 6".
I just hope it's not the above mentioned Blood Ravens.. way too many games with them involved for my taste =P
Actually I would not mind the Blood Ravens. But really the only other two chapters I would like to see in the core book would be Salamanders and Crimson Fist. I can't complain tho no matter who they pick as to the last to chapters cause my chapter was named first.
No Blood Ravens please.
I wish that in DoW1-2 you could choose which Chapter you could play as and the narrative adjusted accordingly.
It would be nice to have one of the unused Marine Chapters used. That way we could see some official fluff on them.
Erick Blackwolf said:
Actually I would not mind the Blood Ravens. But really the only other two chapters I would like to see in the core book would be Salamanders and Crimson Fist.
Well, since the BT filled the Imperial Fist slot, we can safely assume that the Crimson Fists ( and by extension any other IF Successors ) are out.
"Despite this, even these individuals are likely to pass every hour not spent fighting in deep contemplation and prayer, often cloistering themselves away from their fellow Deathwatch space marines..."
Guys, come on. This is poor RPG design, and you know it. Never give a player an excuse to play the loner-type who never interacts with the rest of the party. I mean, did you really write text indicating that properly role-playing your PC means never doing anything but "We're fighting, yay!" and "I'm cloistered and not talking to you."
*headdesk*
Granted, this is a real easy thing for any mature group to fix, but y'all should know better.
Also, for real, I'm going to play a Black Templar LIbrarian. You heard me.
"What? That makes no sense! The Black Templars hate psykers!"
"Why do you think they sent his ass to the Deathwatch?"
The Wyzard said:
"Despite this, even these individuals are likely to pass every hour not spent fighting in deep contemplation and prayer, often cloistering themselves away from their fellow Deathwatch space marines..."
Guys, come on. This is poor RPG design, and you know it.
Most SM Chapters are Warrior Mink Chapters or Space Templars, and the cloistered monk aspect is a core element of playing SM.
OTOH and that is a great problem and why i can hardly run BT campaign, these guys abhorr Librarians and one of my layers love the combat mage archetype, therefore i think BT are a problem class in Deathwatch, except you´ve no Librarians in it.
The Wyzard said:
"Despite this, even these individuals are likely to pass every hour not spent fighting in deep contemplation and prayer, often cloistering themselves away from their fellow Deathwatch space marines..."
Guys, come on. This is poor RPG design, and you know it. Never give a player an excuse to play the loner-type who never interacts with the rest of the party. I mean, did you really write text indicating that properly role-playing your PC means never doing anything but "We're fighting, yay!" and "I'm cloistered and not talking to you."
*headdesk*
Granted, this is a real easy thing for any mature group to fix, but y'all should know better.
You sir are correct.
Oddly I knew they were going to include BTs even though they pose such a problem roleplaying-wise, at least if anyone decides to play a librarian.
The direction they seem to be taking with this project worries me a bit.
warpdancer said:
In one aspect you´re right in the other you´re wrong.
Most SM Chapters are Warrior Mink Chapters or Space Templars, and the cloistered monk aspect is a core element of playing SM.
OTOH and that is a great problem and why i can hardly run BT campaign, these guys abhorr Librarians and one of my layers love the combat mage archetype, therefore i think BT are a problem class in Deathwatch, except you´ve no Librarians in it.
No, playing a warrior-scholar/warrior-monk badass is awesome. Playing a PC who cloisters themselves away from the other PCs is the opposite of awesome. It's not the cloistering that bothers me, it's the cloistering apart-from.
I stand corrected !
As with any RPG, most of the stuff you can take or leave out at your discretion. Cloistering yourself away is fine when you are enacting Rites of Repair and what not. However, most SMs like to spar with other SMs rather then a servitor.
Theofonias said:
As with any RPG, most of the stuff you can take or leave out at your discretion. Cloistering yourself away is fine when you are enacting Rites of Repair and what not. However, most SMs like to spar with other SMs rather then a servitor.
All well and good, but it doesn't change that they basically told people to play their BT PCs as asocial, anti-party malcontents.
Atheosis said:
All well and good, but it doesn't change that they basically told people to play their BT PCs as asocial, anti-party malcontents.
As a Chapter they set themselves apart from other SM Chapters as it is. Due to their history and practices they would be set apart from the others as it is.
Or, you could have an inordinately social Black Templar who constantly preaches to his brethren until the Space Wolf and Dark Angel in the group work past their issues with one another's chapters through mutual annoyance and take the self-righteous git down a notch or two.
I really hope that we get a stealthy Space Marine chapter. But the probability is quickly going down to 0.
Theofonias said:
Atheosis said:
All well and good, but it doesn't change that they basically told people to play their BT PCs as asocial, anti-party malcontents.
As a Chapter they set themselves apart from other SM Chapters as it is. Due to their history and practices they would be set apart from the others as it is.
Yes, yes. That's all well established. The problem is that such characteristics aren't an issue for a tabletop wargame, but can be a very big issue with a tabletop RPG. Between the Dark Angels and the Black Templars we now have two asocial Chapters out of a total of four. I'm actually going to fall down laughing if they manage to include the Iron Hands (another isolationist Chapter) for the techie/bionics angle. I can feel the bitter, silent (or not so silent) hatred brewing even now...
In all seriousness this game seems like it might prove to be a trainwreck.
adversarial PCs + uber-powered PCs + constant combat = a big effing mess, at least potentially
Atheosis said:
Yes, yes. That's all well established. The problem is that such characteristics aren't an issue for a tabletop wargame, but can be a very big issue with a tabletop RPG. Between the Dark Angels and the Black Templars we now have two asocial Chapters out of a total of four. I'm actually going to fall down laughing if they manage to include the Iron Hands (another isolationist Chapter) for the techie/bionics angle. I can feel the bitter, silent (or not so silent) hatred brewing even now...
In all seriousness this game seems like it might prove to be a trainwreck.
adversarial PCs + uber-powered PCs + constant combat = a big effing mess, at least potentially
No matter what game you play you'll have the recalcitrant and unsocial "character". To write off an entire game as a "trainwreck" because of that sentence smacks of hyperbole.
It all boils down to whether or not your GM has the skill of crafting a story enough to bring those types of characters into the game. It's FFG's job to provide a setting and rules. It's up to your troupe as to how they use them.
That's why I used the word "might".
Theofonias said:
Atheosis said:
Yes, yes. That's all well established. The problem is that such characteristics aren't an issue for a tabletop wargame, but can be a very big issue with a tabletop RPG. Between the Dark Angels and the Black Templars we now have two asocial Chapters out of a total of four. I'm actually going to fall down laughing if they manage to include the Iron Hands (another isolationist Chapter) for the techie/bionics angle. I can feel the bitter, silent (or not so silent) hatred brewing even now...
In all seriousness this game seems like it might prove to be a trainwreck.
adversarial PCs + uber-powered PCs + constant combat = a big effing mess, at least potentially
No matter what game you play you'll have the recalcitrant and unsocial "character". To write off an entire game as a "trainwreck" because of that sentence smacks of hyperbole.
It all boils down to whether or not your GM has the skill of crafting a story enough to bring those types of characters into the game. It's FFG's job to provide a setting and rules. It's up to your troupe as to how they use them.
FFG's job is to provide setting and rules that don't make the GM's job actively harder. That's what's at issue. It's not that the setting is nonsense, it's that the setting of an RPG should be designed with having actual people play it at real tables and have a good time. If your setting makes it harder to achieve that goal, then you need to rethink your approach.
The Wyzard said:
FFG's job is to provide setting and rules that don't make the GM's job actively harder. That's what's at issue. It's not that the setting is nonsense, it's that the setting of an RPG should be designed with having actual people play it at real tables and have a good time. If your setting makes it harder to achieve that goal, then you need to rethink your approach.
The rules and the setting (that have been provided) do not make the GM's job actively harder. What you are arguing is that a piece of fluff will make this a roleplaying nightmare. I think that is completely false. Fluff does not dictate the interactions of players, the players and GM (to a lesser degree) do.