I'm prepping for a medium-to-long campaign centering on four characters, two of which are Dragon and the others Phoenix. I want to really zoom into these two clans and explore their mystical, theological and overall weird stories that they tend to encounter. While I want the players to be friends and cooperate, I am not above a little clan vs. clan to bring out the differences between these two clans.

I have had some ideas as plot hooks but I would love to hear from everyone else if they have any fun idea to do with this kind of set up.

Here are what I have so far:

• Perfect Land Sect : Dragon tolerates, Phoenix persecutes. A campaign focusing around the perfect land sect will show the struggle of the common people in Rokugan, tied into the current lore, and introduce some fun clan vs. clan during the game
• Dispute over shared border/resource: This idea comes in some variations but essentially there is some disputed piece of land or resource that the two clans need to negotiate. Usually this works well as an intro adventure for the group to get together I think. Some of the conflict ideas are
  • A crystal cave found on the border of the two clans. This is taken directly from this module The Price of Tear by Tantaclaus of the Shadow of the Cabal podcast (link: https://drive.google.com/file/d/10br-mpLPhwqDy-zMugaXDm1oljyZ8H_q/view )
  • An unclaimed village currently run by a band of Ronin. It must pay tax, in koku or in grains. But to which clan?
  • An ancient temple holding a powerful/terrible artifact. Contrasting rumors from pilgrims and monks who venture here tempt both clans to send a representative to see if they can rightfully claim the shrine and its treasure

Any idea is really appreciated!

1 hour ago, broselovestar said:

Perfect Land Sect : Dragon tolerates, Phoenix persecutes. A campaign focusing around the perfect land sect will show the struggle of the common people in Rokugan, tied into the current lore, and introduce some fun clan vs. clan during the game

Definitely a nice idea. With their whole shtick being shrines and shujenga, I'm not sure I've ever seen much about Phoenix peasants, but a shared border means the potential flow of ideas.

1 hour ago, broselovestar said:

Dispute over shared border/resource: This idea comes in some variations but essentially there is some disputed piece of land or resource that the two clans need to negotiate. Usually this works well as an intro adventure for the group to get together I think.

Definitely. If the two 'halves' of the group are essentially thrown together with the instruction "Sort it out (and don't give away the Homeworld whilst your at it...*)", then it's an obvious nice idea.

Generally, something mystical works well - ancestral works for Dragon, spiritual works for Phoenix and you can often combine the two.

1 hour ago, broselovestar said:

An unclaimed village currently run by a band of Ronin. It must pay tax, in koku or in grains. But to which clan?

I was going to say 'unclaimed' villages are relatively unlikely. But minor families and even minor clans on a border aren't an uncommon idea (Emperors sometimes use them as 'firebreaks' between major clans); a fallen minor clan (ruling family dying out) means you could have a village 'become' unclaimed. Obviously it can't be left that way and if the current Emperor is no longer bothered about the firebreak.

Having a mysterious artefact/cave/derelict shrine found on the borders makes for a nice opening point, and allows you to introduce the characters through court intrigues then a more dungeon crawly skirmish as it progresses from "We Want It/We Want It" to "Fair Enough, You Deal With It/We've Reconsidered, You Can Have It, You Deal With It" ....a classic trope would be a suitably potent artefact that's there for a reason everyone has forgotten; a pretty potent blessed sword in a shrine which is keeping a kansen or other suitably destructive monster bound by its presence, for example.

If you really want to build some real tensions, you could always crib some plot ideas from The War of Fire and Snow:

"The eruption of the Wrath of the Kami [The Volcano at the heart of Dragon territory] in 1155 had caused many refugees to flee the lands of the Dragon Clan and into the Dragon Heart Plain, which was at the time controlled by the Phoenix Clan. Mirumoto Uso moved his people onto the plains between the Dragon and Phoenix territories, a land that technically belonged to the Dragon but had been untenanted for centuries. The Phoenix, who had cared for and protected the land, saw this as an invasion.

The Phoenix were adamant that the refugees could not stay on their lands. Attempting to evict the homeless Dragon began the hostilities between the two usually peaceful clans."

* Sorry - Babylon 5 moment, there.

1 hour ago, Magnus Grendel said:

The War of Fire and Snow

Oh gosh this sweet sweet lore. I probably have to scale down the conflict and remove some of the meta-plot shenanigans, but the idea that there is some angry elemental force that engenders a migration is very very appropriate

35 minutes ago, broselovestar said:

Oh gosh this sweet sweet lore. I probably have to scale down the conflict and remove some of the meta-plot shenanigans, but the idea that there is some angry elemental force that engenders a migration is very very appropriate

Well, you can just reduce the scale a bit. Rather than blowing up everything shy of the High House Of Light, an avalanche or landslide could easily destroy a number of villages (or worse, the farming terraces supporting them). If you're on the edge of the mountains, moving the refugees down into the Dragon Heart plains is probably the easiest way to get them to safety, especially if there are a large number of wounded, elderly and children in tow. And after all, it's their land....isn't it?

Note that the two clans' view of Bushido are diametrically opposed on the tenet of Makoto (Sincerity); it's the least significant to the Phoenix and the most important to the Dragon, so any behaviour in the campaign which revolves around someone being perceived to break their word or a solution to a problem which involves the party and their allies publicly showing their dirty secrets is a great element for introducing non-PVP tension.

2 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

the two clans' view of Bushido are diametrically opposed on t  he tenet of Makoto (Sincerity)

Oh yes this is something I want to look at too. Granted my players aren't that experienced in role-playing bushido values but I will prod them along the way.

Curious: what do you think can be an unifying factor for these two clans to join force, at least temporarily. I ultimately want my players to be on the same team, just with some latent tension. Of course any source of common enemy would do, but I'm looking for something uniquely Dragon and Phoenix

32 minutes ago, broselovestar said:

Oh yes this is something I want to look at too. Granted my players aren't that experienced in role-playing bushido values but I will prod them along the way.

Curious: what do you think can be an unifying factor for these two clans to join force, at least temporarily. I ultimately want my players to be on the same team, just with some latent tension. Of course any source of common enemy would do, but I'm looking for something uniquely Dragon and Phoenix

Generally, anything mystical. The Phoenix have a standing duty to the spiritual harmony of the kami and the spirit world, whilst the Dragon stand off except when Mysterious Prophecy #3,475 instructs them to act.

The Phoenix might send someone to deal with something causing disruption in the natural order of things and upsetting the kami somewhere near their borders. The fact that the Dragon turn up as well without having been told means that whatever it is at the moment, it has the potential to be world-shaking if not dealt with correctly.

A big part of it will depend what Dragon you're dealing with. Agasha/Kitsuki are good for 'we have found something intriguing, let us poke it' whilst Togashi/Mirumoto are far more suited for any story beginning with the phrase "In accordance with the prophecy..."

A few ideas:

Differing Theology: Both Clans are high on religion, but they approach it from opposite angles: the eccentric and individualist Dragon can be quite an affront for the traditional and by-the-book Phoenix practices, and the Phoenix fundamentalism and hubris can trigger even the most insightful and contemplative Dragon. Think about this like having a Protestant and an Orthodox Christian traveling together - he hilarity is almost guaranteed!

Enlightenment and Piety: The Dragon focuses on the former, the Phoenix focuses on the later. This start to get heated when they question the other's choice while propagate their own pick as the better. "Piety is words cast into the nothing without a sight on Enlightenment" versus "Enlightenment is a path to insanity and corruption without honest piety". This is a bit like the previous idea, but instead of religious ideals you have the characters' philosophies duke it out.

Poor Life Choices of a Founding Kami: Trash talking the Founding Kami of the other is always funny and ripe for conflict, especially if both characters think they are the wisest sh-t around town and the Founding Kami of the other indeed made some quite questionable decisions. Togashi shouldn't have thrown the entire Empire under the proverbial bus against Fu Leng. Shiba shouldn't have knelt to Isawa. Where did Togashi go exactly anyway? What was Shiba's masterplan in that First Oni incident? Note that this can go very ugly very quickly with lots of Culture (Earth) Skill Checks flying around.

These three sources of conflict usually go in a row: first the theology, then whoever is losing the argument moves the goalpost to philosophy, and finally we have personal insults via the Founding Kami talk.

Wholeheartedly agree. The Phoenix are traditionalists in the same manner as the Crane and Lion whilst the Dragon are much more individualistic like the Crab and Unicorn - not just in philosophy but everything; vast gilded shrines versus a monk meditating on a stone, for example.

Compare Agasha (debating received wisdom in a library) to Kitsuki (investigating out in the world). In reality, both approaches matter, and when there isn't 'winning an argument' on the line, both would admit it, but they would be damned before they'd admit it to each other...

Appreciate the break down of the two clans' philosophy.

I'm looking to do some weird stuff with the other spirit realms too, any thing I should note when it comes to those things (with regard to Dragon vs. Phoenix of course) For e.g. I'm thinking of doing a Yume-do sleepy/nightmare town adventure

On 11/27/2018 at 5:22 AM, broselovestar said:

Appreciate the break down of the two clans' philosophy.

I'm looking to do some weird stuff with the other spirit realms too, any thing I should note when it comes to those things (with regard to Dragon vs. Phoenix of course) For e.g. I'm thinking of doing a Yume-do sleepy/nightmare town adventure

Thought I'd bring this up, despite the minor necro, due to Emerald Empire being out. EE has a section on the spirit realms, including Yume-do, where it mentions how dreams can be used as an escape from reality, where scandalous acts can be committed without social/cultural backlash. It ALSO talks about how lucid dreaming and divination techniques, and how dreams can blend together, means that illicit meetings, spying, and more, can all be done in theory via the realm (and how this is causing the Moth clan, who have studied it for centuries, to become vexed as modern day amateurs mess around with the realm).

9 hours ago, Isawa Miyu said:

Thought I'd bring this up, despite the minor necro, due to Emerald Empire being out. EE has a section on the spirit realms, including Yume-do, where it mentions how dreams can be used as an escape from reality, where scandalous acts can be committed without social/cultural backlash. It ALSO talks about how lucid dreaming and divination techniques, and how dreams can blend together, means that illicit meetings, spying, and more, can all be done in theory via the realm (and how this is causing the Moth clan, who have studied it for centuries, to become vexed as modern day amateurs mess around with the realm).

Very nice. The "am I dreaming or not" is a cool but weird thing to throw into a story. An adventure scene set during a shared foreboding dream might be interesting.

Wonder how one would poke the mechanics? Stuff like incapacitation would probably wake you up, and an unmasking might wake you up screaming....

13 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Very nice. The "am I dreaming or not" is a cool but weird thing to throw into a story. An adventure scene set during a shared foreboding dream might be interesting.

Wonder how one would poke the mechanics? Stuff like incapacitation would probably wake you up, and an unmasking might wake you up screaming....

There's also the opportunity to play around with how much, if anything, the characters remember when they wake up.

I run a Phoenix game and I'm on the same path. I've seeded the Perfect Land sect and it's ties to the Dragon lands. There will be a natural disaster (ex: volcano, earthquake) that will force refugees over the Phoenix borders, spreading the sect to new lands. The lack of shelter or food with a coming winter could force a conflict as the Dragon samouraï in desperation would capture a set of villages to sustain their refugees.

Is the Perfect Land rebellion or heresy? As they look closely, the creed of the sect does resemble the teachings of Shinsei.

On 12/31/2018 at 7:10 AM, Soshi Saibankan said:

I run a Phoenix game and I'm on the same path. I've seeded the Perfect Land sect and it's ties to the Dragon lands. There will be a natural disaster (ex: volcano, earthquake) that will force refugees over the Phoenix borders, spreading the sect to new lands. The lack of shelter or food with a coming winter could force a conflict as the Dragon samouraï in desperation would capture a set of villages to sustain their refugees.

Is the Perfect Land rebellion or heresy? As they look closely, the creed of the sect does resemble the teachings of Shinsei.

Are your players Phoenix? Are you going to make this occur before the 'recent' destruction of the Perfect Land sect heretics in Phoenix lands by the clan? Because the sect is officially heresy to the Phoenix, in setting as-is currently: something they determined, and then enforced with deaths.

Personally, I find the 'skipping the line' aspect of the sect to be clearly a deviation from Shinseism, and the Perfect Land sect looks a lot like something the Kolat would inspire (with the idea that mortals can basically seize their destiny in death, not altogether different than the Kolat desire for mortals to seize their destiny in life). Other than that specific teaching though, the sect has a lot that does indeed inspire questions of philosophy, such as if samurai are doing enough to help teach the peasantry, since by teaching them, they imply that they should be taught, which if it is true, should be the samurai class's responsibility.