If Gabos fights against an elusive creature, is any damage dealt?

What does the card say?

You are attacking the Elusive creature. No damage is dealt.

Now, if you attack a creature without Elusive with Gabby Longy, you can deal the damage to the Elusive creature, since it's not the one being directly attacked.

Nexus only has the reminder text for elusive in parentheses, which is necessarily truncated. The BRB says "the first time a creature with the elusive keyword is attacked each turn, it is dealt no damage and deals no damage to the attacker in the fight." So yes, Gabos would deal damage.

Gabos attacks Nexus -> damage is dealt to another creature

Gabos attacks another creature -> damage is dealt to Nexus (which is not actually being attacked)

Just now, WonderWAAAGH said:

Nexus only has the reminder text for elusive in parentheses, which is necessarily truncated. The BRB says "the first time a creature with the elusive keyword is attacked each turn, it is dealt no damage and deals no damage to the attacker in the fight." So yes, Gabos would deal damage.

No... it wouldn't. If Gabos is attacking the Elusive creature, the condition for Elusive is met, and so no damage is dealt, no matter who Gabos is trying to redirect it to.

2 minutes ago, twinstarbmc said:

No... it wouldn't. If Gabos is attacking the Elusive creature, the condition for Elusive is met, and so no damage is dealt, no matter who Gabos is trying to redirect it to.

I don't think you read the quoted rules text. BRB, page 10. If Gabos attacks Nexus the damage to Nexus would be prevented, but you're not doing damage to Nexus, you're doing it to something else. If you attack something else the elusive doesn't trigger at all, so damage could be dealt to the Nexus. Either way Gabos deals damage.

It (the elusive creature) is dealt no damage, doesn't say anything about any other creature in the RRG

@WonderWAAAGH , @Palpster

Hm... Ok, ok, let's break this down into little tiny steps.

Let's say I have Gabos, and you have the Unnamed Elusive Creature.

1. I declare I'm attacking your UEC with my Gabos.
2. Before we actually fight, I say Gabos is going to deal its damage to Unnamed Nonlusive Creature (UNC).
3. Gabos fights UEC. Check Elusive:
   1. "The first time a creature with the elusive keyword is attacked each turn..." - TRUE
   2. "...it is dealt no damage and deals no damage to the attacker in the fight."

Looks like the key here is " it is dealt no damage," where it is the UEC. Gabos isn't trying to damage it , it's damaging the UNC instead. So yeah, I take it back, Gabos would still deal damage to the other creature.

20 minutes ago, twinstarbmc said:

@WonderWAAAGH , @Palpster

Hm... Ok, ok, let's break this down into little tiny steps.

Let's say I have Gabos, and you have the Unnamed Elusive Creature.

1. I declare I'm attacking your UEC with my Gabos.
2. Before we actually fight, I say Gabos is going to deal its damage to Unnamed Nonlusive Creature (UNC).
3. Gabos fights UEC. Check Elusive:
   1. "The first time a creature with the elusive keyword is attacked each turn..." - TRUE
   2. "...it is dealt no damage and deals no damage to the attacker in the fight."

Looks like the key here is " it is dealt no damage," where it is the UEC. Gabos isn't trying to damage it , it's damaging the UNC instead. So yeah, I take it back, Gabos would still deal damage to the other creature.

I don’t mean to sound like I’m attacking you personally but you are really sassy this morning with the rules lawyering. elusive causes NO damage to be dealt.

2 minutes ago, Poposhka said:

I don’t mean to sound like I’m attacking you personally but you are really sassy this morning with the rules lawyering. elusive causes NO damage to be dealt.

If Elusive were worded differently, I'd absolutely agree with you. For example, if it said "... attacking creature deals no damage..." then there would be no doubt that this would be true. But that's not what it says. I'm sorry.

Also, no sass intended at all. I leave that to @WonderWAAAGH .

5 minutes ago, Poposhka said:

I don’t mean to sound like I’m attacking you personally but you are really sassy this morning with the rules lawyering. elusive causes NO damage to be dealt.

But he's right. The reminder text is incomplete, and it looks as though that's all you're referencing.

1 minute ago, twinstarbmc said:

If Elusive were worded differently, I'd absolutely agree with you. For example, if it said "... attacking creature deals no damage..." then there would be no doubt that this would be true. But that's not what it says. I'm sorry.

Also, no sass intended at all. I leave that to @WonderWAAAGH .

Hey, I'm not sassy. I'm just drawn that way.

I'm glad me and my mate weren't the only ones to see this from two sides!

The other thing to consider is, this means that IF Gabos does apply the damage through to a different non-elusive target, he would also receive no damage because his original target IS being elusive?

And also, if he fights an elusive creature AND applies the damage to a different elusive creature, the same result occurs. Gabos puts 5 damage through, suffering nothing back? Seems powerful.

(I'm not too upset, I own both decks we played with.)

But I think I prefer the viewpoint that Elusive "should" stop the damage getting through at all. Applying damage without a return hit at all should be covered by a form of either Skirmish or possibly Assault (if powerful enough).

If you target an elusive creature in an attack, no damage is dealt. assault, before fight, fight keyword damage, all deal damage - but no fight damage.

edit: sorry I typed this out one-handed while driving, yeah yeah I know bumper to bumper traffic, and it came across super sloppy and completely contradictory to what’s i was trying to convey lol

3 minutes ago, Poposhka said:

If you target an elusive creature in an attack, no damage is dealt. No assault, no before fight, no fight keyword damage, no fight damage.

That is entirely false. Per the rules:

Quote

Elusive only stops damage that would be dealt by each creature’s power; damage dealt by keywords or other abilities still applies.

11 minutes ago, Poposhka said:

If you target an elusive creature in an attack, no damage is dealt. No assault, no before fight, no fight keyword damage, no fight damage.

Minor correction here assault damage is still dealt. Under the rules for elusive on page 10 the relevant part says
"Elusive only stops damage that would be dealt by each creatures power; damage dealt by keywords and other abilities still applies"
So Assault would still hurt an Elusive creature the same way Hazardous still deals damage to a skirmisher.
Similarly Before Fight is still technically an ability meaning it would skirt the elusive protections. The only time the Elusive creature would prevent damage here would be if "it" was the one being attacked as now it's meeting the qualifier for elusive (being attacked) and not having damage dealt to it by an ability but rather by the creatures power (also meeting the secondary qualifier for elusive).

This is hilarious. This exact scenario (with nexus and longarms) came up yesterday at a local tournament for 1st/2nd place. In the tourney we decided to say no damage was dealt, but upon further inspection of the scenario i believe damage would be dealt to the other creature, elusive or not.

It all comes down to how Before Fight and when elusive checks the game status.

Nonetheless, hopefully this gets an FAQ answer.

1 minute ago, Spawnod said:

This is hilarious. This exact scenario (with nexus and longarms) came up yesterday at a local tournament for 1st/2nd place. In the tourney we decided to say no damage was dealt, but upon further inspection of the scenario i believe damage would be dealt to the other creature, elusive or not.

It all comes down to how Before Fight and when elusive checks the game status.

Nonetheless, hopefully this gets an FAQ answer.

The timing doesn't really matter though, Elusive requires the creature to be attacked, if it's not being attacked Elusive doesn't trigger. Similarly Elusive only prevents damage specifically to the creature with Elusive.
So you've got two scenarios here both which wind up the same, either:
A) You attack a creature with elusive, it's ability triggers preventing damage to IT (not any other creature) then use the before fight to target another creature and deal it damage. (Side note if the second creature has elusive it's irrelevant as it's not being attacked and thus it's elusive does not trigger).
or
B) You don't attack the creature with elusive and redirect the damage to a creature with elusive at which point it's not being attacked and therefor elusive doesn't trigger.
The only thing you can't do is attack a creature with elusive and then deal damage to that same creature as Gabos ability indicates it must target a creature other than the one it's fighting.

4 minutes ago, Spawnod said:

It all comes down to how Before Fight and when elusive checks the game status.

Nonetheless, hopefully this gets an FAQ answer.

I agree with both those points.

In my "heated but friendly" debate, I was arguing about the position of the full stop on the Longarms ability and that the only thing that happened before the fight was choosing a different creature but then the actual fight occurred with the elusive target thus negating all damage dealt.

Sorry please ignore my original post. It was written while driving. I have edited it.

17 minutes ago, Miggor123 said:

I agree with both those points.

In my "heated but friendly" debate, I was arguing about the position of the full stop on the Longarms ability and that the only thing that happened before the fight was choosing a different creature but then the actual fight occurred with the elusive target thus negating all damage dealt.

Timing is still irrelevant, let's break down Elusive. For the sake of argument we'll say Gabos Longarms is attacking a creature with Elusive and then using it's before fight ability to target a different creature with elusive as well.
Page 10:
"The first time a creature with the elusive keyword is attacked each turn..."
-So the creature is being attacked, this means Elusive triggers.
"..it is dealt no damage and deals no damage to the attacker"
-So the elusive creature is not going to be dealt damage by the attacker. This does not say damage is negated or that any other creature is not going to be dealt damage but merely that the elusive creature itself will not be dealt damage. Further when we go more into the rules for elusive it explicitly states that this is only damage dealt by power, not abilities.
"Elusive only stops damage that would be dealt by each creatures power, damage dealt by keywords or other abilities still applies".

So now we trigger the before fight ability, another target is chosen
-It's not being attacked but rather effected by an ability. Thus meaning if it has it's own elusive it doesn't trigger as it needs to be attacked and even if it did before fight is an ability and thus wouldn't be stopped by elusive anyways.
-Similarly the creature who is being attacked own elusive only protects itself, not any other target.

XD

First of all, let's 100% drop any references to Assault, they are irrelevant to this discussion.

Now my personal stance on this is that Elusive's timing starts essentially before the actual Power exchange, it can't be during the Power Exchange and it obviously can't be after.

So at it's core Elusive works as a Before a Fight. Now Gabby isn't doing unique damage, he is applying his Power to another creature. Elusive straight up states in the text for Nexus that no damage is dealt. Thus Gabby deals no damage to another creature.

2 minutes ago, Talamare said:

Elusive straight up states in the text for Nexus that no damage is dealt.

Reminder text is not rules.

5 minutes ago, Talamare said:

First of all, let's 100% drop any references to Assault, they are irrelevant to this discussion.

Now my personal stance on this is that Elusive's timing starts essentially before the actual Power exchange, it can't be during the Power Exchange and it obviously can't be after.

So at it's core Elusive works as a Before a Fight. Now Gabby isn't doing unique damage, he is applying his Power to another creature. Elusive straight up states in the text for Nexus that no damage is dealt. Thus Gabby deals no damage to another creature.

If you start at the beginning of the thread you can see that we've resolved this issue already.

2 minutes ago, WonderWAAAGH said:

If you start at the beginning of the thread you can see that we've resolved this issue already.

Oh I did, I might have missed the Official FFG ruling on it tho, could you be a dear and quote it for me?