Just now, AK_Aramis said:

Severity doesn't get increased by successes except in special cases. Scars need 7-11

Uhm, yes? That's why the damage received will be never so big to Incapacitate you from the attack alone. You get the 7+ critical damage and maybe 3 Fatigue, because the attacker has to pile up Opps for the critical or do similarly result-intensive shenanigans.

11 minutes ago, Avatar111 said:

as a GM, with monsters or villains/bandits etc I would totally attack incapacitated players and crit them into oblivion. so they better have friends to help/defend them.

I'm more for the "no-roll execution" crowd if you know what I mean .

20 minutes ago, AtoMaki said:

I'm more for the "no-roll execution" crowd if you know what I mean .

Thats even nastier! and not using RAW, but you could totally play your game with that level of letality if your group is cool with it.

2 hours ago, AK_Aramis said:

for  +✻: Striking as Fire, Veiled Menace Style, Pin the Fan

Doesn’t Razor Edged also give the opp spending ability to increase severity?

But anyway, about the idea of treating the Dying condition as having the same restrictions as Incapacitated, note that this does not prevent you from acting: you can still a) do some non-roll actions (move, say some witty last words...), and b) spend a Void Point to ignore that condition for one round. Last ditch heroic efforts would probably fall in the latter category. However, it does let you attempt to heal yourself so we’re back to square one 😛

1 hour ago, Franwax said:

Doesn’t Razor Edged also give the opp spending ability to increase severity?

But anyway, about the idea of treating the Dying condition as having the same restrictions as Incapacitated, note that this does not prevent you from acting: you can still a) do some non-roll actions (move, say some witty last words...), and b) spend a Void Point to ignore that condition for one round. Last ditch heroic efforts would probably fall in the latter category. However, it does let you attempt to heal yourself so we’re back to square one 😛

Yes, I was talking talents, and overlooked the qualities. Still...

A lot depends upon the duel, as well. Honor-duel? No armor, a typicial samurai has 12 End, takes three hits to Incapacitate, two if both keep bonus successes. Odds are that a typical PC will be using a ring at 3+, and a skill of 2+, if they're going for the crits... Need 2 successes for the hit, ✻✻ for the crit, ✻✻✻ for the +3 severity. And then, they need to roll no success on the resistance roll, and they not have made earth ✻+ spends last turn to reduce the severity... that's 7 needed symbols on no more than 6 kept dice (assuming a void point), so it's less than a 59% chance no matter what you do... you MUST keep at least one explosive.

If it's a clash (battlefield duel) or armored duel, and they're bushi with Laminate armor, the first requires 3 successes or damages the blade used. Then, still ✻✻ for the crit, and ✻✻✻ for the minimum severity increase, That's 8 needed symbols.

About the only way to get two crits that severe in a reasonable time is for the opponent to be incapacitated for at least one of them. I mean, I have seen 4&2k4 rolled as 1Ex + 3 Opp with 1 strife kept, which then eded end up as 6S, 4 opp and 4 strife... if I didn't roll the dice in front of the players, they'd be incredulous.

Incapacitated reduces the needed opp to just the 3 for severity increase.

So essentially, its an off chance with low probability. Especially if one doesn't have a void point to spend upon the task.

wouldn't you need a medicine kit to do a medicine check to remove bleeding/dying or do first aid (as per medicine skill) ?

maybe everything makes more sense if you need to "ready" a medicine kit with 2 hands (can't hold a weapon in one hand and a medicine kit in the other) to heal a condition.

now, considering the curable conditions (with medicine skill) during a skirmish are:

Bleeding (medicine earth)

Dying (medicine air)

it would mean that you cannot even make the check in the same round you take out the medicine kit (because you cannot be in water stance for the above checks).

which makes everything.. more interesting, but slightly deadlier.

on another note, the regular use of medicine skill to heal fatigue (first aid) is a medicine WATER check, so this one you can do in the same turn with water stance to ready your kit and do a first aid.

or, you can use the OP rank1 kiho Cleansing Spirit (that removes Dying condition... no less), but you cannot use it on yourself, or I think a water invocation can remove bleeding.

26 minutes ago, Avatar111 said:

a water invocation can remove bleeding.

Yes, Path to the inner peace, with an opportunity

Star Wars makes it that if you don't have a medicine kit your TN is increased for using medicine check to heal people.

I think it would make sense to increase the TN of first aid, and the TN to remove any condition with the medicine skill by 1 if you don't have a medicine kit readied/prepared.

and you would still need at least one hand free to do any of those checks in the first place i suppose.. i don't see a dude dual wielding a daisho that stops the bleeding on his buddy with TN 2 medicine check without dropping his weapons...

14 minutes ago, Avatar111 said:

wouldn't you need a medicine kit to do a medicine check to remove bleeding/dying or do first aid (as per medicine skill) ?

maybe everything makes more sense if you need to "ready" a medicine kit with 2 hands (can't hold a weapon in one hand and a medicine kit in the other) to heal a condition.

I think so, given that the medicine kit says, " This is a simple first aid kit that contains all the necessary items to treat many kinds of injuries."

The lack of cross references makes the book easier to edit, but harder to parse.

• Note that the medicine skill entry (pp. 157-158) isn't explicit about the need for a kit.
• The medicine kit lists needed items for treating wounds
• Wounds are noted as a condition applied (p. 273)
  • TN4 Medicine to remove it, only one such roll per week, per ring. So, with luck, light wounds heal in a week, severe in 2 weeks.
• I'll note that Wound Conditions cannot be treated on the field (requires a downtime activity) (p. 273), but fatigue can (first aid).
  • First Aid Sounds like use of Chi-gung aka Qigong. Which requires no tools. And is about the only thing that can be done in combat besides removing dying.
  • Treatment requires downtime. TN2 removes fatigue. It doesn't affect conditions. (p. 157) This could also be Qigong.
  • One must be treated before first aid will work again (p. 273). Which really smacks of Qigong and/or medicinal atemi. Buddy's exhausted? tag him in the right spot to get his ki flowing again. (modern medical speak, hit the right nerve cluster to trigger a massive endorphin rush and/or the hormones that trigger rapid ketosis.)
  • TN4 Medicine or TN3 Fitness reduces a wound one degree (Severely to lightly, or lightly to non) (p. 273)
• Nothing specifies a benefit of using a kit or tool;

Plus, treating Dying is TN4, before conditions.

On the other hand, 3 lights do equal a scar. (The first is light; the second is severe, the third is a non-reducible 8. (p. 273))

Given the pile of above, I think the readied kit is required for treatment in downtime. Stopping death? Probably not. But I think it's time to hit the Devs with a couple related questions this rulescrawl has spawned...

4 minutes ago, AK_Aramis said:

I think so, given that the medicine kit says, " This is a simple first aid kit that contains all the necessary items to treat many kinds of injuries."

The lack of cross references makes the book easier to edit, but harder to parse.

• Note that the medicine skill entry (pp. 157-158) isn't explicit about the need for a kit.
• The medicine kit lists needed items for treating wounds
• Wounds are noted as a condition applied (p. 273)
  • TN4 Medicine to remove it, only one such roll per week, per ring. So, with luck, light wounds heal in a week, severe in 2 weeks.
• I'll note that Wound Conditions cannot be treated on the field (requires a downtime activity) (p. 273), but fatigue can (first aid).
  • First Aid Sounds like use of Chi-gung aka Qigong. Which requires no tools. And is about the only thing that can be done in combat besides removing dying.
  • Treatment requires downtime. TN2 removes fatigue. It doesn't affect conditions. (p. 157) This could also be Qigong.
  • One must be treated before first aid will work again (p. 273). Which really smacks of Qigong and/or medicinal atemi. Buddy's exhausted? tag him in the right spot to get his ki flowing again. (modern medical speak, hit the right nerve cluster to trigger a massive endorphin rush and/or the hormones that trigger rapid ketosis.)
  • TN4 Medicine or TN3 Fitness reduces a wound one degree (Severely to lightly, or lightly to non) (p. 273)
• Nothing specifies a benefit of using a kit or tool;

Plus, treating Dying is TN4, before conditions.

On the other hand, 3 lights do equal a scar. (The first is light; the second is severe, the third is a non-reducible 8. (p. 273))

Given the pile of above, I think the readied kit is required for treatment in downtime. Stopping death? Probably not. But I think it's time to hit the Devs with a couple related questions this rulescrawl has spawned...

Ain't it weird that you can also fix your buddy's bleeding condition while wielding 2 weapons ?

Qikong is strong! basically pass near your friend, give him a toe kick in the right nerve and he might just stop dying.

Same as you can, in theory, first aid yourself while wielding your two handed polearm.

It is a medicine check, not a spell.

But maybe they wanted it to be like that. And they invented the medicine kit for style. Because who needs a medicine kit when Qikong exists?

Anyway, i'm going to bed now. Ttyl AK.