Can someone point the rules for fighting using a weapon in each hand?

So far while reading through the core rules I've found special rules and references for it in two different katas, one distinction and the Mirumoto Bushi school ability, but can't seem to find any actual general rules for it. It certainly doesn't seem to be in the index.

Considering that in earlier editions both the Mirumoto and the Mantis had schools focused on using two weapons at once I'd expect to find rules for it or at least an explanation on how this edition will handle dual wielding.

There are no specific rules as far as a I Know. I guess having 2 weapons gives you the option of attacking with either.

The Mirumoto School gives you a use for the second weapon, allowing you to "parry" or "snare" the opponent's weapon. There's also a technique (Spinning Blades Style) that allows you to auto-strike your target with your offhand weapon if you spend oppotunities=their vigilance.

Besides that I think there is no use for the offhand. Its odd because f.e. if i recall correctly iaijutsu cuts give you the option of readying a second weapon in your offhand by using an opportunity. But there is little use for it (unless you are a Mirumoto or have this technique).

Hoping they introduce rules for it in the future, perhaps via more techniques.

Its fine i think. You want to double wield ? You use the spinning blade technique.

Or mirumoto.

i have a lot of issues with this game, but this is not one of them. maybe they could have named spinning blade technique "dual blade technique" instead, to make it more clear but that's about it.

i have a lot of issues with the mechanics/balance of this game but this isn't one of them.

Spinning Blades Style is silly. The flavour text goes out of its way to explain dual wielding is not about attacking with both weapons simultaneously, but the mechanical benefit of the technique is pretty much that you can inflict damage with both weapons simultaneously as long as your roll is good enough. The only time you'll only do damage with the secondary weapon is if your roll fails, so you miss with the main weapon, but still have the necessary Opportunities. Missing deliberately in order to get the necessary Opportunities is never the best choice.

Just now, nameless ronin said:

Spinning Blades Style is silly. The flavour text goes out of its way to explain dual wielding is not about attacking with both weapons simultaneously, but the mechanical benefit of the technique is pretty much that you can inflict damage with both weapons simultaneously as long as your roll is good enough. The only time you'll only do damage with the secondary weapon is if your roll fails, so you miss with the main weapon, but still have the necessary Opportunities. Missing deliberately in order to get the necessary Opportunities is never the best choice.

unless the target is dazed ! and/or with low vigilance, maybe.

but yeah, the flavor text is a bit unfitting. still a real good technique btw. this technique by itself makes vigilance that much better in combat. this is a technique a couple of enemies should definitely have.

4 minutes ago, Avatar111 said:

unless the target is dazed ! and/or with low vigilance, maybe.

Two Opportunities will turn your main attack into a critical, and at the point where your SBS bonus damage from skill ranks becomes significant your dice pool is probably good enough that you can reliably hit with your main weapon and get your SBS damage as well. Enemy Vigilance is possible going to be higher as well at that point.

2 minutes ago, nameless ronin said:

Two Opportunities will turn your main attack into a critical, and at the point where your SBS bonus damage from skill ranks becomes significant your dice pool is probably good enough that you can reliably hit with your main weapon and get your SBS damage as well. Enemy Vigilance is possible going to be higher as well at that point.

thing is, the technique is fine. its not weak, its not busted. its actually really solid at what it does (even if flavor text doesnt make sense!)

1 minute ago, Avatar111 said:

thing is, the technique is fine. its not weak, its not busted. its actually really solid at what it does (even if flavor text doesnt make sense!)

Absolutely. But that flavour text thing really bugs me. ?

Just now, nameless ronin said:

Absolutely. But that flavour text thing really bugs me. ?

you can "potentially" triple crit in a turn with that technique!

dude is incapacitated, you strike, 2opp for crit, some opps for spinning blade.

pow pow pow !

first crit, then dude becomes unconscious, then 2 crits at +10.

ooph!

Note that Spinning Blades don't require you to actually succeed on the attack. It's a great way of hitting despite missing.

42 minutes ago, WHW said:

Note that Spinning Blades don't require you to actually succeed on the attack. It's a great way of hitting despite missing.

And it can be used with non-Strike Attack actions and with any readied weapon (even unarmed attacks).

3 hours ago, nameless ronin said:

Spinning Blades Style is silly. The flavour text goes out of its way to explain dual wielding is not about attacking with both weapons simultaneously, but the mechanical benefit of the technique is pretty much that you can inflict damage with both weapons simultaneously as long as your roll is good enough. The only time you'll only do damage with the secondary weapon is if your roll fails, so you miss with the main weapon, but still have the necessary Opportunities. Missing deliberately in order to get the necessary Opportunities is never the best choice.

You're conflating the attack success with a successful hit.

Remember - the attack roll isn't a "hit" - it's a "made you move." It's only a hit if you're too tired or drunk, etc, to move away.

This ties in with the requirement for a critical for a duel to "first blow"...

I fence. With the rapier, with HEMA and SCA fencers. I've plenty of experience with dual weapons.

I "attacked" tuesday night with dagger (18") and sword (44"), both rebated. There was no attempt to hit my opponent with the dagger; the dagger was to merely force him to react in a way that I could potentially land a strike with the sword. More often, he just withdrew and we continued our dance of steel. Sometimes, I failed to clear his blade, and he hit me on the way in with mine. The dagger presented a threat he had to deal with, and the sword another threat he had to deal with. Until he'd hit my sword arm, I had no direct intention of contact using the dagger. (tho', if it had presented itself... but he's the better fencer in general, so I lose about 2:1... not bad for a 49 yo, out of shape, took a decade off, fencer.) All of us tired and had to take calming breaths between bouts, me more than they.

The weapon you lead with (and it can be either, if you know what you're doing) isn't the one you intend to hit with, when you use a dual strike; it's the way you open the door for the other weapon. It's easier to open with the dagger and exploit with the sword, due to reach...

Still, it's a bit weird that the rules doesn't even mention how it handles dual wielding cause of "That Guy".

It's fine if l5r doesn't want any specific rules. I know of plenty of great RPGs I like, where dual wielding is nothing more than flavour. But because of "That Guy" who always will turn up at the table wanting to play a badass with a sword/gun/pitchfork in each hand, most games have some text about it that the GM can direct "That Guy" to.

4 hours ago, Chryckan said:

Still, it's a bit weird that the rules doesn't even mention how it handles dual wielding cause of "That Guy".

It's fine if l5r doesn't want any specific rules. I know of plenty of great RPGs I like, where dual wielding is nothing more than flavour. But because of "That Guy" who always will turn up at the table wanting to play a badass with a sword/gun/pitchfork in each hand, most games have some text about it that the GM can direct "That Guy" to.

But it does. Dual wielding is having 2 weapons each readied in a one-handed grip. What the game does is not grant any inherent advantage to dual wielding other than being harder to lock down with Coiling Serpent Style.

All other advantages of doing so come from other sources such as school abilities, kata and weapons used.

One mechanical advantage of dual wielding is you can stack it with the ambidexterity trait (or a similar advantage). Then it would be easy to argue that having two weapons, and being able to select which to strike with enables the 2 die reroll of the trait.

Dual wielding also gives you two readied weapons, and the ability to not be at a disadvantage if you perform a shattering block. If your second weapon is something less valuable than your ceremonial blade(s) then just toss it and get a new one.

There's also looking super cool, and narrative opportunities.