Not sure I understand bleeding fully well. It reads " When a Bleeding character makes a check, they suffer physical damage equal to the (strife) symbols on their kept dice, ignoring their resistances. Each time damage inflicted this way causes the character to suffer a critical strike, the severity of the critical strike is treated as being equal to the character’s current fatigue."

Ok... So a character is bleeding. He makes a check... takes damage/fatigue equal to the strife on their kept dice.... If the damage is high (exceeds their Endurance), after suffering it they suffer Incapacitated.

While Incapacitated a character "cannot perform actions that require checks" so no more bleeding damage.

How is bleeding damage ever gonna inflict a critical strike on someone? I fail to see it. Can someone please enlighten me?

7 minutes ago, Shosur0 said:

How is bleeding damage ever gonna inflict a critical strike on someone? I fail to see it. Can someone please enlighten m

When you keep strife on your Fitness check to resist a Critical? If you use void opp to ignore Incapacitated? Via hypothetical kiho/invocation/school abilities effects that can bypass Incapacitated? (I think Hida Berserkers will have something like it). There are various possibilities, not any of them common or trivial.

As with all kinds of damage, the character can spend a Void Point to not soak Bleeding damage and suffer a Critical Strike instead. This is useful if the character is at 0 Fatigue.

Note that you can also pay a Void point whenever you take damage to take a crit instead of suffering fatigue.

EDIT: AtoMaki has shinobi'd me 8(

So I bleed so heavily, I destroy my clothing, but don't otherwise take damage...

That's borked xD

Just now, Myrion said:

So I bleed so heavily, I destroy my clothing, but don't otherwise take damage...

That's borked xD

Blood soaks your clothes, making them cling to your body. It's kami-descendant blood, so it's super-high in oxygen content, and that promotes quick rusting of armour.

13 minutes ago, omnicrone said:

If you use void opp to  ignore Incapacitated?

Actually you are not allowed to do that. Strictly the uses for Void Points on pg 36 are: Add and Keep 1 die, Sword Parry and Techniques. In the Harm and Healing chapter under the Unconscious condition says "An Unconscious character may spend 1 Void point to awaken immediately, their instincts rousing them in time to defend against damage." It is not allowed for incapacitated players, though I may houserule that incapacitated players can spend a void point to act normally for a round (having to stand up though).

3 minutes ago, Myrion said:

So I bleed so heavily, I destroy my clothing, but don't otherwise take damage...

That's borked xD

well, if you are incapacitated.. you basically lost (for most characters, the only thing you can do is "calming breath"). you need to hope your party members are going to do something... but yeah, bleeding just being able to be totally ignored when incapacitated seems a bit weird.

and the fact that if you attacked (crit) when incapacitated and bleeding, you might take 2 crits lol

2 minutes ago, Shosur0 said:

Actually you are not allowed to do that. Strictly the uses for Void Points on pg 36 are: Add and Keep 1 die, Sword Parry and Techniques. In the Harm and Healing chapter under the Unconscious condition says "An Unconscious character may spend 1 Void point to awaken immediately, their instincts rousing them in time to defend against damage." It is not allowed for incapacitated players, though I may houserule that incapacitated players can spend a void point to act normally for a round (having to stand up though).

incapacitated needs to be scary.. you can use calming breath or that void point BEFORE becoming incapacitated.

and if you are incapacitated AND unconscious, you still cannot defend. Sure you can use one void point to wake up from unconscious but you are STILL incapacitated thus cannot defend (though at least you don't take the +10 crit severity)

the unconscious void point use is more as a safe guard if you are not incapacitated but unconscious because you are asleep, for example.

That's not what I referred to, Avatar.

I was talking about having Bleeding while still at Fatigue 0. So I take damage from Bleeding by keeping Strife and then Void it into a Crit - which is a Crit 0, so I don't take damage but I break my clothes.

10 minutes ago, Shosur0 said:

Actually you are not allowed to do that. Strictly the uses for Void Points on pg 36 are: Add and Keep 1 die, Sword Parry and Techniques. In the Harm and Healing chapter under the Unconscious condition says "An Unconscious character may spend 1 Void point to awaken immediately, their instincts rousing them in time to defend against damage." It is not allowed for incapacitated players, though I may houserule that incapacitated players can spend a void point to act normally for a round (having to stand up though).

Not a void point, a void opportunity to ignore a condition until next turn. You can do that after resisting a Critical Strike in void stance or by using the opp exactly when you get incapacitated after an action on your turn after taking damage from bleeding, since opportunities solve after strife on rolls.

ie. You can be at 1 endurance and Bleeding, roll an attack, keep 2 die with strife, get incapacitated, use opp to ignore incapacitated and not be limited on your actions until the end of your next turn. Extremely edge case, but RAW allows it.

3 minutes ago, Myrion said:

That's not what I referred to, Avatar.

I was talking about having Bleeding while still at Fatigue 0. So I take damage from Bleeding by keeping Strife and then Void it into a Crit - which is a Crit 0, so I don't take damage but I break my clothes.

euh. ok.

lol

2 minutes ago, omnicrone said:

Not a void point, a void opportunity to ignore a condition until next turn. You can do that after resisting a Critical Strike in void stance or by using the opp exactly when you get incapacitated after an action on your turn after taking damage from bleeding, since opportunities solve after strife on rolls.

you guys are both right. go read unconscious condition, its got a void point usage thingy.

Just now, Avatar111 said:

you guys are both right. go read unconscious condition, its got a void point usage thingy.

Well, Incapacitated != Unconscious though. We were talking about Incapacitated, not Unconscious.

2 minutes ago, omnicrone said:

Well, Incapacitated != Unconscious though. We were talking about Incapacitated, not Unconscious.

i know, you are right! void opp != void point

i was explaining to shosuro about " An Unconscious character may spend 1 Void point to awaken immediately, their instincts rousing them in time to defend against damage." It is not allowed for incapacitated players, though I may houserule that incapacitated players can spend a void point to act normally for a round (having to stand up though)."

explaining why you still cannot defend if both incapacitated and unconscious and spend a void point.

Just now, Avatar111 said:

i know, you are right! void opp != void point

i was explaining to shosuro about " An Unconscious character may spend 1 Void point to awaken immediately, their instincts rousing them in time to defend against damage." It is not allowed for incapacitated players, though I may houserule that incapacitated players can spend a void point to act normally for a round (having to stand up though)."

explaining why you still cannot defend if both incapacitated and unconscious and spend a void point.

It is something that should be better clarified in the book IMO. All of my players thought you got Unconscious whenever you got Incapacitated, which isn't the case, they are very different conditions.

23 minutes ago, omnicrone said:

It is something that should be better clarified in the book IMO. All of my players thought you got Unconscious whenever you got Incapacitated, which isn't the case, they are very different conditions.

exact. so sure you can "wake up" from unconscious with a void point but it doesnt make you less incapacitated thus still unable to defend.

its a cool rule, just not super explained indeed.

your void opp spending tech is quite good though!

In page 36 Void Points, sidebar: A HERO’S RESOLVE In works of samurai fiction, force of will is often a deciding factor at crucial moments. Void points can be spent to tap into that spirit of heroism, helping characters persevere in situations that seem insurmountable.

I think it would be ok to add another use for spent Void points: Ignore the Incapacitated and Unconscious condition and act normally for one turn.

1 hour ago, Shosur0 said:

" When a Bleeding character makes a check, they suffer physical damage equal to the (strife) symbols on their kept dice, ignoring their resistances. Each time damage inflicted this way causes the character to suffer a critical strike, the severity of the critical strike is treated as being equal to the character’s current fatigue."

RAW the higher your Endurance the higher the severity of the crit when Bleeding incapacitates you. The severity should be a fix number plus the Fatigue exceeding Endurance.

16 minutes ago, Shosur0 said:

In page 36 Void Points, sidebar: A HERO’S RESOLVE In works of samurai fiction, force of will is often a deciding factor at crucial moments. Void points can be spent to tap into that spirit of heroism, helping characters persevere in situations that seem insurmountable.

I think it would be ok to add another use for spent Void points: Ignore the Incapacitated and Unconscious condition and act normally for one turn.

your call.

i'm not going there. i'd rather the player spend the void point before and take a crit.

but you can do what you want, it is your game when it is at your table.

Why so, Fuyuma? You're tougher, so it takes more blood loss to make you too weak to fight - but that amount still is much worse for you than the little it takes for a weak character to pass out.

On 11/1/2018 at 12:06 PM, Shosur0 said:

Not sure I understand bleeding fully well. It reads " When a Bleeding character makes a check, they suffer physical damage equal to the (strife) symbols on their kept dice, ignoring their resistances. Each time damage inflicted this way causes the character to suffer a critical strike, the severity of the critical strike is treated as being equal to the character’s current fatigue."

Ok... So a character is bleeding. He makes a check... takes damage/fatigue equal to the strife on their kept dice.... If the damage is high (exceeds their Endurance), after suffering it they suffer Incapacitated.

While Incapacitated a character "cannot perform actions that require checks" so no more bleeding damage.

How is bleeding damage ever gonna inflict a critical strike on someone? I fail to see it. Can someone please enlighten me?

Incapacitated characters still MUST roll to reduce crits. Not may, must

" When a character suffers a critical strike, they must make a TN 1 Fitness check to mitigate its effects (using a ring of their choice in a narrative scene, or the ring their stance dictates in a conflict scene)." (p 270)

One must also keep at least one die.

" The player must choose at least one die to keep, and can choose to keep a maximum up to the value of the ring the character used for the check. The player then removes all dropped dice." (p 24)

So, if they get hit again, they MUST roll to resist the crit, and it all dice show strife... that's a crit with severity of (current fatigue). And remember, fatigue counts upward, not subtracting from End...

(pick your rerolls to force strife, if you can use their disad.)

Also... the 4 end peasant isn't going to die from bleeding for a while... a 4-6 point crit isn't itself lethal... but every hit doing more than armor resistance is a crit, and requires a roll...

When you are incapacited you cant perform actions that require a check but you can still perform reactions that require a check, so you would perform your resist damage check and there the bleeding condition applies.

Or at least that is what someone clarified at this forum in some place..

edit: Aramis-sama were ahead from me