So after our first Dengar Day celebration, my friend and I determined that out of the "unplayable" figures we used this past Sunday, only one is completely unusable. That is the e-web engineer. He used the elite version in one game and let me tell you, he's utterly useless. I don't even think lie in ambush would help him.

We used Verena, Biv, Saska, RGC, Quiz, Kayn, e-E-web, General's Ranks, e-Wampa, r-Wing guard, last resort, r-trandoshans, r-tuskens, heroic effort, headhunter, fury of kassyk as these are what we drew from a pool that we devised. Each player had to play a squad from all three factions.

I was most surprised with the r-trandoshans with headhunter. I play them like melee characters, so with headhunter now you have the threat of making him ditch 2 command cards each time you attack with the group! I was also surprised by Saska Teft. She allowed me to bring in Greedo without temp alliance which is great because GIA. This also meant that I could put Smuggler's Run on him! Combined with the fact that sometimes her "unstable device" ability got me 2damage was a nice bonus. I admit she's overcosted by about 2-3 points, but she did alright with the spy cards. I essentially sat her on a terminal and let her shoot and use her ability if anyone came close.

I found that in general, extra armor was effective in making some of these unplayable figures better. Also, some command cards like dying lunge and second chance also enhance their utility.

By the end of the day we were blown away by how amazing this game is. With a little bit of experimenting and a leap of faith, some of the old figures are not that bad. Next I will try Garkhan and Fenn (on our list but not drafted).

Saska in Hondo for Smuggler's run.

24 minutes ago, NeverBetTheFett said:

I was also surprised by Saska Teft. She allowed me to bring in Greedo without temp alliance which is great because GIA. This also meant that I could put Smuggler's Run on him! Combined with the fact that sometimes her "unstable device" ability got me 2damage was a nice bonus. I admit she's overcosted by about 2-3 points, but she did alright with the spy cards. I essentially sat her on a terminal and let her shoot and use her ability if anyone came close.

Hondo may be her best target to bring in now if you're going to do the smuggler's run. Stack that with his innate ability and you're gaining even more free VPs

Most of the figures that no one plays actually have neat abilities, they just aren't played due to cost. Look at OLD Chewie or Han. Chewie got a serious price reduction and a tweak in his rules (free slam), Han same thing (a little cheaper and he can return fire all the time).

Saska was always a good character, but her price was way too much and her bomb exploding in her face was comic but not effective. Change her points to 2 like the alliance smuggler (she doesn't have the slippery ability so she needs the extra health) or give her movement 5 like she has in the campaign and make her movement 3. Her surges are great, her dice are horrible, and the bomb thing she does is antiquated. Biv is fantastic but his numbers got mixed up. If he was 6pts for 9 health, he'd find a way into lists just for his Hunter ability. RGC has the best offensive surges in the game, and awesome downtown movement, but he can't stay alive long enough, etc.

On Saska, I used her recently to bring in Boba Fett. Y'know because he's Boba Fett.

The list included Luke, Hero of the alliance, and some other dudes. I just thought the mission briefing would be so funny.

Luke: So is your contact coming to join us?

Saska: Should be here any minute.

Door opens and in walks Boba Fett.

Luke: Saska…?

Saska: Hey, me and Bobes, we go way back. Don't we Bobes?

Boba Fett <Nods>: Boba Fett.

Luke: Uh, I have a bad feeling about this...

Boba Fett <nods>: Boba Fett.

Great thougts. In general, bad and unplayable is a matter of perspective. I have a demo kit that I use to teach IA out in shops and in con:s and I honestly can say that in my last games (at least Before I began testing against Spectre cell) more then half of them has been with this very limited pool of figures and command cards and I have had so much fun playing it. It again shows that there are not just two play modes for this game (Campaign and skirmish) but at least three. Casual skirmish is just as fun (and to me lately even more fun) as competative skirmish.

I keep hoping that tournament organizers will pick up on different structures. Tournament ban lists, pre wave x-tournaments, theme tournaments and similar would be great fun for sure and it can be done without "breaking rules" with homemade mods.

15 hours ago, NeverBetTheFett said:

So after our first Dengar Day celebration, my friend and I determined that out of the "unplayable" figures we used this past Sunday, only one is completely unusable. That is the e-web engineer. He used the elite version in one game and let me tell you, he's utterly useless. I don't even think lie in ambush would help him.

First off, that tourney sounds awesome! And secondly, I can't agree more with this.

We played an online tournament with @cnemmick 's fixes for the various underpowered cards, and I wanted so badly for the e-web to work. He changed the card so that you could deploy it up to six spaces away from your deployment zone, letting you set it up a bit to try to bring it into the game more.

That sounded like a really cool fix to me! But, even with that, the opponent STILL managed to just move the other way on half of the maps and he just ended up being wasted points just sitting there. It's too bad, because I really love the idea behind the unit.

16 hours ago, Fightwookies said:

Saska in Hondo for Smuggler's run.

Hondo may be her best target to bring in now if you're going to do the smuggler's run. Stack that with his innate ability and you're gaining even more free VPs

Totally agree. I thought the same thing actually. Honestly, she wasn't too bad as I just sat her back on the terminal using the smuggler/spy cards that require actions. Then if anyone came close, she attacked and used unstable device. I admit 6 points is a lot for a character to sit back, but I really felt that she did a lot more than Blaise did for my Imp squads.

15 hours ago, TheEldarGuy said:

On Saska, I used her recently to bring in Boba Fett. Y'know because he's Boba Fett..

Boba Fett <nods>: Boba Fett.

I am totally going to do this.

2 hours ago, NeverBetTheFett said:

Totally agree. I thought the same thing actually. Honestly, she wasn't too bad as I just sat her back on the terminal using the smuggler/spy cards that require actions. Then if anyone came close, she attacked and used unstable device. I admit 6 points is a lot for a character to sit back, but I really felt that she did a lot more than Blaise did for my Imp squads.

This is why a skirmish companion App would be amazing. Saska doesn’t need any ability changes, or an official fix. She just needs an updated cost of 4.

2 hours ago, Fightwookies said:

This is why a skirmish companion App would be amazing. Saska doesn’t need any ability changes, or an official fix. She just needs an updated cost of 4.

3. LOL. Ok, maybe 4.

3

8 hours ago, ManateeX said:

the opponent STILL managed to just move the other way on half of the maps and he just ended up being wasted points just sitting there

I wouldn't necessarily say it's "wasted" points, have you thought perhaps the reason why your opponent moved to the other way was because you had the E-web sitting there?

it's funny because the eWeb is super scary when you first start playing a campaign, one of those things pops out when you open a door and boom! a guy gets wounded and you can't get someone to help him and you can't kill the silly thing. In skirmish, at this point, you can almost one shot them with several figures, almost guaranteed with Spectre Cell, except for Chopper.

3 hours ago, NeverBetTheFett said:

3. LOL. Ok, maybe 4.

OP at 3, haha. you'd take her over Mak every time. She'd be playable at 4. Smuggler is a great trait.

6 hours ago, ricope said:

I wouldn't necessarily say it's "wasted" points, have you thought perhaps the reason why your opponent moved to the other way was because you had the E-web sitting there?

Oh for sure that's why he went the other way, but unfortunately the end result was the same. The e-web was too slow to factor into the objective game, so we basically ended up with a brawl elsewhere on the map with my side at a 6 point handicap. I mean there were some games in that tournament where he factored in more than that, but even then if he's somewhere that the opponent really needs to be he's just not hard enough for the newer skirmish pieces to take down.

If you really want to get depressed about the elite e-web, just compare his stats to the AT-DP for one point more. Same dice, same defense, comparable surges (just missing recover), +1 damage and a reroll, more than double the health, and no restriction on moving and shooting. The poor engineer is just so, so far behind the curve.

14 hours ago, Fightwookies said:

OP at 3, haha. you'd take her over Mak every time. She'd be playable at 4. Smuggler is a great trait.

I totally agree. I think here smuggler trait is underestimated, and therefore underused, since nobody uses her. But If you keep her back and let her use spy/smuggler cards and then keep her for the end, she could be a decent clean up figure.

12 minutes ago, NeverBetTheFett said:

I totally agree. I think here smuggler trait is underestimated, and therefore underused, since nobody uses her. But If you keep her back and let her use spy/smuggler cards and then keep her for the end, she could be a decent clean up figure.

If she goes to 4 she needs to not do damage to herself with the device

19 hours ago, NeverBetTheFett said:

3. LOL. Ok, maybe 4.

Haha! Here's my current version of a fixed Saska:

Quote

Regular Unique Deployment Card - Saska Teft (Shifty Engineer)

Cost: 3

Smuggler

+2 Accuracy

surge: +1 Accuracy, +1 DMG

surge: Pierce 1

surge: Weaken

=> Device Distribution: You or an adjacent friendly figure gains 1 WILDCARD TOKEN.

Adaptive Devices: During your activation, you may discard 1 WILDCARD TOKEN to perform an interact as a free action or to gain 2 movement points.

Shady Contacts: You may include up to 1 non-upgrade SCUM Deployment card in your army.

Attack Type: Ranged

Attack Pool: green/yellow/yellow

Defense Pool: white

Speed: 4

Health: 5

Saska Teft Command Card FAQ Update

"Hidden Trap" now costs 1 point and reads: "=> Choose a terminal or object. Each figure on or adjacent to that terminal or object suffers 2 DMG."

2 hours ago, cnemmick said:

Haha! Here's my current version of a fixed Saska:

Not bad at all.

Three dice for 3 is wow. Love the rest of the fix though. Han would immediately become BFFs with Saska

49 minutes ago, Averagejo3gam3r said:

Three dice for 3 is wow.

I took another look at this and, while I don't mind the 3 die attack, I think I miscalculated how many surges was going to get through a single-die defender. Gonna make a tweak to the surge abilities to keep her from being able to Weaken about 1/3rd of the time and make it more of a choice. But overall, I like her damage output at cost 3, and I like she can pocket a DMG token and make your opponent be worried about her finishing a figure late game.

4 hours ago, cnemmick said:

I took another look at this and, while I don't mind the 3 die attack, I think I miscalculated how many surges was going to get through a single-die defender. Gonna make a tweak to the surge abilities to keep her from being able to Weaken about 1/3rd of the time and make it more of a choice. But overall, I like her damage output at cost 3, and I like she can pocket a DMG token and make your opponent be worried about her finishing a figure late game.

Smuggler spy are ridiculously strong traits. She needs to be 4, shady contacts itself is probably 1 cost. With the wild token distribution at cost 3 that's better than eDTS, she'd be broken Imo, but we can playtest it.

I strongly dislike the inflation in attack Dice. When even a weaker figure like Hera can one shot many troopers makes the troopers unplayable or calls for HP increase that makes them harder to one shot for the really major figures creating a need for them to hit even harder. If I was to rebuild Saska, I would make her attack RY with a built in +1 accuracy. Pretty high peak damage at Close range but pretty useless on long range and on average making her a decent terminal sitter with a bit of "leave me alone". And 4 Points.

10 hours ago, Ram said:

I strongly dislike the inflation in attack Dice. When even a weaker figure like Hera can one shot many troopers makes the troopers unplayable or calls for HP increase that makes them harder to one shot for the really major figures creating a need for them to hit even harder. If I was to rebuild Saska, I would make her attack RY with a built in +1 accuracy. Pretty high peak damage at Close range but pretty useless on long range and on average making her a decent terminal sitter with a bit of "leave me alone". And 4 Points.

Yup. That's how I feel she fits in now. She's there to stir the pot and not necessarily be a seasoned killer.

Yes! This kind of information is the stuff I crave ! Thanks for y'all's feedback... and keep it coming!

So my priorities for this rework are in the following priorities:

1) Make Shady Contacts affordable

2) Make Saska playable as a objective runner (mainly for Heroic Effort lists and even worth considering when NOT using Shady Contacts)

3) Let Saska contribute to end-game combat

From your feedback, it looks like I over-compensated on #3 with the three-die attack. Honestly, I'm not a fan of unique figures being a two-die attacker. Rebel Unique figures *need* to hit hard, since you are only getting that single figure for the deployment cost. But I clearly overlooked that Saska can give herself a damage or surge token for round 3 combat AND could get Focused from Gideon/Threepio to be a 4-die attacker. Even with Doubt, Saska is going to keep one of those two bonuses. I'm fine with Saska's base attack not being three dice, but it needs to be potent.

23 hours ago, TheWelcomeMat88 said:

Smuggler spy are ridiculously strong traits.

Just to be clear, she no longer has the Spy trait in this rework. I agree with you, a Spy at cost 3 would be way too powerful! Even in my rework document, Mak Eska'ray's cost is raised to 4 and he gains benefits to help his survivability and increase his attack potency.

17 hours ago, Ram said:

When even a weaker figure like Hera can one shot many troopers makes the troopers unplayable or calls for HP increase that makes them harder to one shot for the really major figures creating a need for them to hit even harder.

Honestly, that's a problem with 3-figure Trooper deployments, not Rebel Uniques. And I have some fixes for those deployments in the document. Take a look and let me know if the fixes are enough or not.

So! New draft of Saska:

Quote

Regular Unique Deployment Card - Saska Teft (Shifty Engineer)

Cost: 3

Smuggler

Pierce 1, +2 Accuracy
surge: +2 Accuracy
surge: +1 DMG
surge: Weaken

=> Device Distribution: You or an adjacent friendly figure gains 1 WILDCARD TOKEN.

Assistive Technology: Once during your activation, you may perform an interact as a free action.

Shady Contacts: You may include up to 1 non-upgrade SCUM Deployment card in your army.

Attack Type: Ranged

Attack Pool: green/yellow

Defense Pool: white

Speed: 4

Health: 5

Saska Teft Command Card FAQ Update

"Hidden Trap" now costs 1 point and reads: "=> Choose a terminal or object. Each figure on or adjacent to that terminal or object suffers 2 DMG."

Here's what her damage output looks like with the two-die attack and new abilities:

red: vs 1 black die
green: vs 1 white die
blue: vs 1 black die +1 BLOCK
yellow: vs 1 white die +1 BLOCK
(this legend applies for graphs below as well)

Now, her damage outlook after spending a DMG token:

And her damage graph when spending a SURGE token:

In my opinion, the elite stormtroopers is the perfect deployment and all other deployments should compare to them. The eStormys and the eRebel troopers should be one short:able by all major deployments and possible to one shot with all medium deployments. The creep in number of dice and hit points makes the game way less fun in my book.

Dont get me wrong, the game is awesome. It would just be more awesome with that mindset. In my very humble opinion. :)