Just now, AtoMaki said:

After yesterday's game I want changes for three things:

1. The Matsu Berserker School Ability that is so terrible it can potentially kill the character upon activation.
2. Pelting Hail needs a hit from the nerfhammer.
3. The Hiruma Scout School Ability needs some clarification because using it in Intrigues just didn't feel right.
4. +1: This might be intentional, but the Ide Trader School Ability actually makes selling more difficult .

1. Matsu are really screwed in 5E. But serves them right for being the UNDISPUTABLE BEST MELEE BUSHI SCHOOL 100% GUARANTEED in 4E. Their school ability in 5E only makes them: lose duels, die.

2. Pelting Hail is strong. I'm really afraid of the Wasp Clan when they rear their heads in.

3. Good catch, have no Hiruma at my table so I've never considered how weird their school ability must be on an Intrigue scene.

4. Ide ability is busted since Day 0, no one at my table made one, but I want to try to fix it eventually.

10 minutes ago, AtoMaki said:

After yesterday's game I want changes for three things:

1. The Matsu Berserker School Ability that is so terrible it can potentially kill the character upon activation.
2. Pelting Hail needs a hit from the nerfhammer.
3. The Hiruma Scout School Ability needs some clarification because using it in Intrigues just didn't feel right.
4. +1: This might be intentional, but the Ide Trader School Ability actually makes selling more difficult .

1, 3, 4 . ill check those. thanks for your input!!

2. for sure! lol... i have a hard time seeing how bows are basically the strife giving weapons... and it isnt just a little bit. not sure I like it indeed... maybe it could be switched to doing fatigue dmg, as much as the ring you used for the attack. or something like that. or prone the other targets ? anyway. yeah, need to think about it.

3 minutes ago, Avatar111 said:

2. for sure! lol... i have a hard time seeing how bows are basically the strife giving weapons... and it isnt just a little bit. not sure I like it indeed..

I think bows should be the best strife giving weapons. Being pelted by arrows without appropriate cover should be really unnerving, after all. But that doesn't mean Pelting Hail is balanced, even if thematically appropriate.

1 minute ago, omnicrone said:

I think bows should be the best strife giving weapons. Being pelted by arrows without appropriate cover should be really unnerving, after all. But that doesn't mean Pelting Hail is balanced, even if thematically appropriate.

so it is the amount of strife it gives that bug you, more than the fact it gives strife ?

6 minutes ago, Avatar111 said:

so it is the amount of strife it gives that bug you, more than the fact it gives strife ?

Yeah. I think it should give a lot of strife only under certain conditions: ie. the shooter is Obscured, the victims don't have a ranged weapon prepared, etc.

2 minutes ago, omnicrone said:

Yeah. I think it should give a lot of strife only under certain conditions: ie. the shooter is Obscured, the victims don't have a ranged weapon prepared, etc.

no other kata gives strife though. which is why i find it a bit "off".

maybe, as discussed previously, I see strife more as the domain of courtiers.

but either way, despite our respective opinions; Pelting Hail is a bit strong. not busted like CSS imo, but a bit too good.

18 minutes ago, omnicrone said:

4. Ide ability is busted since Day 0, no one at my table made one, but I want to try to fix it eventually.

As far as I have seen, it is a pretty good ability. Many shenanigans were made with Tributaries of Trade.

I was under the impression that the Ide wasn't supposed to SELL things, but buy them and them use them as gifts to curry favour?

@FFGDerek - Do you mind moving this to the House Rules subforum?

Edit: Woohoo! Thank you, kindly Moderator!

On 10/26/2018 at 6:38 PM, Avatar111 said:

-adjusting earth stance (making it less binary)

changing it to: "When other characters make Attack or Scheme action checks, if they want the possibility to spend opportunities for anything that would include you as the target or make you a target, They must pay 1 extra opportunity".

this is as equivalent to Air stance to me. Making it more challenging but not downright impossible! Which is also more FUN. Remember, opportunities are only 1/3 of the dice's results and successes are about 1/2 of the dices results (these are not exact numbers, i am not including explosions, but more or less). So that +1opportunity cost really makes it difficult to gather enough opportunities if you still want to succeed, and, it will most probably cost you an extra strife to activate it a lot of the time since strife results will be on some dices you need to keep. Also, I make the wording much wider. So, sure, you are not downright immune to critical and conditions, but they need to spend one extra opportunity for EVERYTHING that have you as a target (or would make you a target) in the opportunity spending.

This seems like the most urgent thing to fix since stances are used in 100% of the game. I have some very conservative players, and I can foresee them turtling in Earth all the time. Boooring... ' definitely going to pro-actively use this modification when we start up in a few weeks.

4 minutes ago, Lorne said:

This seems like the most urgent thing to fix since stances are used in 100% of the game. I have some very conservative players, and I can foresee them turtling in Earth all the time. Boooring... ' definitely going to pro-actively use this modification when we start up in a few weeks.

Alternatively, have people with Open Hand kick them in the groin into Water stance and then murder them one by one as the others turtle.

5 minutes ago, Lorne said:

This seems like the most urgent thing to fix since stances are used in 100% of the game. I have some very conservative players, and I can foresee them turtling in Earth all the time. Boooring... ' definitely going to pro-actively use this modification when we start up in a few weeks.

Let me know how it goes.

I am really unsure if it is too weak or too strong, sure it is not a "perfect effect" anymore but instead I made it usable against many more things.

Also, should it be "2 opportunity extea cost" once you hit rank4? Maybe, but then again that could be too strong.

5 minutes ago, JBento said:

Alternatively, have people with Open Hand kick them in the groin into Water stance and then murder them one by one as the others turtle.

Lol

Everything have situational counters.

That open hand wont work in intrigues.

I just dont like effects that are too "perfect". It isnt really the fact that it was too strong (i dont think it was) it was the fact that it was boring.

If anything, my version could actually be stronger. Since it works vs almost everything if it targets you or of you are amongst the targets.

In example, it works agains CSS.

Just now, Avatar111 said:

Lol

Everything have situational counters.

That open hand wont work in intrigues.

I just dont like effects that are too "perfect". It isnt really the fact that it was too strong (i dont think it was) it was the fact that it was boring.

The opposition can win Intrigues by never even interacting with the party. Turtling in Intrigues is a terrible idea unless you know what the goals of all the groups are, and all of them (at least, all of them that don't run counter to yours which is a very small minority) focus on you.

And Open Hand isn't situational - Open Hand is AWESOME. It's a setup to allow your teammates to bump the TN to resist their attacks by a bunch without having to spend any of their dice.

5 minutes ago, JBento said:

The opposition can win Intrigues by never even interacting with the party. Turtling in Intrigues is a terrible idea unless you know what the goals of all the groups are, and all of them (at least, all of them that don't run counter to yours which is a very small minority) focus on you.

And Open Hand isn't situational - Open Hand is AWESOME. It's a setup to allow your teammates to bump the TN to resist their attacks by a bunch without having to spend any of their dice.

So, what you are saying is that you are fine with earth stance as is?

I am not fine with it as is, in many situations. But if you are, I won't argue with you, you are entitled to your opinion.

Some people are fine with CSS, some people are fine with air ring not being calculated in endurance/fatigue, or fine with resist checks, or fine with the zanbato.

In theory, what the devs wrote is what it should be, it is their game.

Edit; and yeah open hand is good.

But earth stance in duels is not.

You know the drill.. we ve been talking about this for days.

The zanbato mostly confuses me, because I see no reason why anyone would ever use one over the nodachi.

2 minutes ago, JBento said:

The zanbato mostly confuses me, because I see no reason why anyone would ever use one over the nodachi.

I also see no reason why you wouldn't turtle in earth stance during duels.

Nor no reason why earth is included in both endurance and composure, when these are clearly the two most important secondary stats.

1 minute ago, Avatar111 said:

I also see no reason why you wouldn't turtle in earth stance during duels.

But that's because duels are, well, borked, not necessarily over Earth stance.

Just now, JBento said:

But that's because duels are, well, borked, not necessarily over Earth stance.

Indeed. That was my prefered way to "unbreak" them. But it doesnt mean its the only or even best way.

I feel they are kind of unbroken with my rules, as it makes the bidding for the initiative extremely strong.

But other options probably exists.

Though, even in a regular, duel to incapacitated (see: clash) how boring is it if one guy just stick with earth stance with his big endurance and composure and smack you every turn?

Oof.

Sure, eventually you get "the technique" that counters it.. but if the only way to play against it is a rank 3+ technique... Something is fishy.

9 hours ago, AtoMaki said:

After yesterday's game I want changes for three things:

1. The Matsu Berserker School Ability that is so terrible it can potentially kill the character upon activation.
2. Pelting Hail needs a hit from the nerfhammer.
3. The Hiruma Scout School Ability needs some clarification because using it in Intrigues just didn't feel right.
4. +1: This might be intentional, but the Ide Trader School Ability actually makes selling more difficult .

1: it is a bad ability, because, to be good you would need to receive more than one critical. but the first time you use the ability, you are enraged and critical against you are +2 severity. haha. Maybe it is the amount of fatigue removed that isn't generous enough ? not sure how to modify it but i do agree it needs a slight buff.

2: on it. my initial thought is to remove the strife damage entirely and give something else, as it is, it's the only kata that gives strife, and I really don't see strife as being combat willpower. My first ideas here would be that the other targets (at range 0-2) suffer the prone condition and 1 or 2 fatigue, But i need to analyse it more.

3: this is actually a REALLY strong ability. Strike with an offensive ring, switch to a defensive ring after. Lovely. But I would add: "after performing an attack action in a Skirmish or Mass Battle" Hiruma Scouts have a lot of command, so that makes sense.

edit: this ability is so good... allows you to strike with fire, then switch to water and do the water stance extra mini action. it really have so much use. probably not OP, but dang, it is solid. to remove that for intrigues and duels is honestly just FAIR lol.

4: definitely, in both case (selling and buying) it should be "lower the item's rarity". that just seems like the intention to me, they just screwed up the wording...

thanks for all this, vry appreciated. If you find more, send here!

I've been thinking...

What if the issue isn't with Earth stance or with duels? What if the REAL issue is Strike? What happens to the whole shebang if you remove Strike's ability to crit with 2 Opps.

I did just think of something.

The Earth Stance stops people from inflicting Conditions on you by spending Opportunities, as well as preventing critical strikes. So, this is pretty clearly prevents you from being Immobilized by various Techniques.

Would a way of fixing both Earth Stance and Coiled Serpent Strike would be to make the effect of CSS a Condition which reads:

Bind
Effect: One readied weapon you are holding has been trapped, and can no longer be effectively used. You may not make Attack actions with that weapon.
Expires: At the end of your turn if you have not taken an Attack action. Also, you may take a Support Action on your turn to end this Condition.

This would allow CSS to have most of the same effect, but would allow for Earth Stance to prevent it. Thoughts?

1 hour ago, JBento said:

I've been thinking...

What if the issue isn't with Earth stance or with duels? What if the REAL issue is Strike? What happens to the whole shebang if you remove Strike's ability to crit with 2 Opps.

Then how would you crit in duels?

Or out of duels?

And if you cannot crit with opportunities, you nerf earth stance because it is one of its major thing.

Changing earth stance is easier

1 minute ago, Avatar111 said:

Then how would you crit in duels?

Or out of duels?

And if you cannot crit with opportunities, you nerf earth stance because it is one of its major thing.

Changing earth stance is easier

You crit in duels with Finishing Blow and/or Rising Blade.

I thought you were complaining that Earth stance was too good? There you go, indirect nerf, and it still saves you from Opp-spawned conditions (Burning and Bleeding are REALLY good)

1 minute ago, sndwurks said:

I did just think of something.

The Earth Stance stops people from inflicting Conditions on you by spending Opportunities, as well as preventing critical strikes. So, this is pretty clearly prevents you from being Immobilized by various Techniques.

Would a way of fixing both Earth Stance and Coiled Serpent Strike would be to make the effect of CSS a Condition which reads:

Bind
Effect: One readied weapon you are holding has been trapped, and can no longer be effectively used. You may not make Attack actions with that weapon.
Expires: At the end of your turn if you have not taken an Attack action. Also, you may take a Support Action on your turn to end this Condition.

This would allow CSS to have most of the same effect, but would allow for Earth Stance to prevent it. Thoughts?

Thing is. I hate earth stance already.

It makes duels to first strike totally stupid, it makes courtiers trying to give you conditions totally useless.

I have an issue with the "pefect" defense that earth stance provide.

Hence why, in my rework, i make earth stance only cost 1 more opp, but for everything you want to spend opp on (which, yes, makes earth stance useful versus CSS).

My main issue, is that earth stance is too binary, for a pen&paper rpg driven by dices/luck.