4 minutes ago, shosuko said:

Why do you believe the Bayushi are thematically low Composure?

The way I see it willpower would be the ability to push on in your task rather than becoming worn down, where composure is your ability to appear cool headed. If a characters willpower were eroded I would expect this to be shown by their inability to perform their tasks anymore, as if they were giving up on their goal. Composure does not do this. If you are compromised you are unable to keep strife die - so at first you might think it is being worn down - but the resulting unmask makes me challenge that Composure is Willpower. When you unmask you may actually over-perform your task. You aren't worn down, rather you are done holding back. This isn't a lack of willpower but rather a lack of restraint. It is crucial to see these as two different things.

I would not question a Hida's willpower, but i would question his restraint. I would never question a Bayushi's restraint...

Why do you believe Composure is Willpower?

i feel "willpower" is acted thru different techniques and opportunity spendings. if anything, water is probably the willpower ring because of its opportunity spendings. Crab have some of that, even with my rework its not like crabs are loose cannons. Matsu (earth/fire) are. Earth/Fire are the lose cannons.

but yeah, i associate composure MUCH more with "bushido as the emperor intend it to be". meaning, Duty above all else.

thats how i see composure, and thats why I think a crab would be like "screw your weird twisted talk boys, theres a job to be done!"

to me composure is more about how you can hold yourself up within the ultra rigid structure of Rokugan society.

and really. i feel that is how the designers originally intended it to be...

sure, unmasking isn't bad, but you lose "society status" points. so cranes, scorpions, and courtiers with low composure in general... bugs me.

14 minutes ago, omnicrone said:

Focus is a really bad stat, way worse than the other 3. Vigilance is pretty good, though.

thats another subject. focus CAN be good, if you have a really strong offense. you can set the tone, either in skirmish, duels or intrigue. you start the dance.

but is focus what you want to have ? it is a hard stat to play with i agree. as a player, to make the most out of it, you need to be quick witted for real.

and IF we keep the "wait" action as the designers wants it to be.... you can do some nifty tricks with it... like; move(free) wait, then 2 turns in a row (end of round + your first turn).

so yeah, maybe theres hope for focus

20 minutes ago, Avatar111 said:

indeed. but you COULD make a 4 composure bayushi 3 air 3fire 2void 1 earth 1water

that is my dude.

really not convincing me that the system works good. earth being in both endurance and composure... irritates me. because yes, i think most of the time, focus and vigilence are not "as good". there are moments they can shine, but rarer.

plus since vigilance is divided by 2, 1 is extremely low, but you will have 2 soon enough (a 2 and a 1 ring). and its not as crucial to me in early game as composure and endurance.

As you can see in my avatar, I really dislike the Scorpion.

Anyway, Scorpion was always the hardest clan to play in the roleplay department. I actually liked how they made the scorpion hard to play in the crunch in 5E, to really hit home how the Bayushi and Shosuro are either zeroes or heroes, either deserving utter mockery or utter respect. In my table, the 6 (now 8 ) composure Bayushi is really killing it, though sometimes he needs help from the Ikoma (which is being built as a duelist !) to alleviate his strife with some cooldown. But most Bayushi can be played poorly and reflect the other side of the scorpion clan coin, I guess.

12 minutes ago, shosuko said:

Why do you believe the Bayushi are thematically low Composure?

Bayushi were always shown to be passionate in the fluff and they are actually the courtiers that unmasked the most considering the sample examples of unmasking, even if most of the times their unmasks had deadlier consequences to their enemies than to themselves. You see, one of the ways of unmasking is Bend Principles, which is as Scorpion as it can get. The way I see it, Bayushi go fast and hard on their objective and if they don't get their way quickly, they compromise, then unmask and fight dirty (and with good air you can actually HIDE your bend of principles, so only Honor is hit, which for a scorpion is *shrugs*). Exposing Openings are also classic Scorpion fare, especially if they are comfortable enough to know their enemies will not be able to capitalize on their weakness or that, if they do, they have a perfect retort waiting in the wings for them to drop a mic with.

8 minutes ago, Avatar111 said:

but yeah, i associate composure MUCH more with "bushido as the emperor intend it to be". meaning, Duty above all else.

No. Composure is just keeping the mask of the Samurai, all of the tenets of Bushido packed neatly. When the tipping point is reached, each Samurai breaks in the path of least resistance:

Crab: usually by smashing things, violently, hopefully shadowlands creatures.

Dragon: usually by trying to retire to reflect on their weakness, I guess.

Phoenix: flexible, but Expose Weakness seems pretty thematically appropriate for their usual hubris

Crane: either stack the ante with a Challenge or exposing openings.

Scorpion: Bend those principles!

Lion: CHALLENGE!!!

Unicorn: Bend principles (especially etiquette) or anything really

3 minutes ago, omnicrone said:

As you can see in my avatar, I really dislike the Scorpion.

Anyway, Scorpion was always the hardest clan to play in the roleplay department. I actually liked how they made the scorpion hard to play in the crunch in 5E, to really hit home how the Bayushi and Shosuro are either zeroes or heroes, either deserving utter mockery or utter respect. In my table, the 6 (now 8 ) composure Bayushi is really killing it, though sometimes he needs help from the Ikoma (which is being built as a duelist !) to alleviate his strife with some cooldown. But most Bayushi can be played poorly and reflect the other side of the scorpion clan coin, I guess.

Bayushi were always shown to be passionate in the fluff and they are actually the courtiers that unmasked the most considering the sample examples of unmasking, even if most of the times their unmasks had deadlier consequences to their enemies than to themselves. You see, one of the ways of unmasking is Bend Principles, which is as Scorpion as it can get. The way I see it, Bayushi go fast and hard on their objective and if they don't get their way quickly, they compromise, then unmask and fight dirty (and with good air you can actually HIDE your bend of principles, so only Honor is hit, which for a scorpion is *shrugs*). Exposing Openings are also classic Scorpion fare, especially if they are comfortable enough to know their enemies will not be able to capitalize on their weakness or that, if they do, they have a perfect retort waiting in the wings for them to drop a mic with.

No. Composure is just keeping the mask of the Samurai, all of the tenets of Bushido packed neatly. When the tipping point is reached, each Samurai breaks in the path of least resistance:

Crab: usually by smashing things, violently, hopefully shadowlands creatures.

Dragon: usually by trying to retire to reflect on their weakness, I guess.

Phoenix: flexible, but Expose Weakness seems pretty thematically appropriate for their usual hubris

Crane: either stack the ante with a Challenge or exposing openings.

Scorpion: Bend those principles!

Lion: CHALLENGE!!!

Unicorn: Bend principles (especially etiquette) or anything really

i think scorpion can handle themselves without unmasking muuuuch longer than many other clans. at least, in my mind.

they, and the cranes, are the two clans that would probably drop the mask last.

or IF they drop the mask, its a fake (trick... AIR), but not a real unmasking.

10 minutes ago, omnicrone said:

Bayushi were always shown to be passionate in the fluff and they are actually the courtiers that unmasked the most considering the sample examples of unmasking, even if most of the times their unmasks had deadlier consequences to their enemies than to themselves. You see, one of the ways of unmasking is Bend Principles, which is as Scorpion as it can get. The way I see it, Bayushi go fast and hard on their objective and if they don't get their way quickly, they compromise, then unmask and fight dirty (and with good air you can actually HIDE your bend of principles, so only Honor is hit, which for a scorpion is *shrugs*). Exposing Openings are also classic Scorpion fare, especially if they are comfortable enough to know their enemies will not be able to capitalize on their weakness or that, if they do, they have a perfect retort waiting in the wings for them to drop a mic with.

Where they unmasking? Or acting?

I think I'm a bit confused too... You paint unmasking as a point of strength - meaning as you level up you lose this strength? Is this supposedly a strength we are taking away from Crab and Lion by giving them a lot of Composure for free? Do you see composure as just worthless yet unmasking as valuable?

I'm having a tough time understanding your perspective...

12 minutes ago, shosuko said:

Where they unmasking? Or acting?

et voilà.

in my mind a, real unmasking is when your character lost it, hes like "screw those rules, i'm going about it MY WAY". and it should have negative consequences. sure, GM can give it a little boost afterward, but originally it needs to be negative.

a controlled unmasking is more a fake than anything else. which is what Air shuji gives (rank 5 air shuji... make some people believe you have an advantage or disadvantage). is the epitome of fake unmasking. full on perfomance/social roll... AIR.

but if you start to say you can "fake" real unmaskings... it is breaking the system a bit. When unmasking, your character needs to be out of self-control, whether hes a scorpion or a lion. unmasking is going "raw". "truthful".

26 minutes ago, Avatar111 said:

i think scorpion can handle themselves without unmasking muuuuch longer than many other clans. at least, in my mind.

they, and the cranes, are the two clans that would probably drop the mask last.

or IF they drop the mask, its a fake (trick... AIR), but not a real unmasking.

I disagree. The Crab clan are the ones that should be unfazed by most things. In court they are bored , not nervous, and in combat, if they are not fighting horrors most Crane and Scorpion samurai would wet the bed if they caught a glimpse of, they are in a nice vacation called "fighting clan samurai or a peasant revolt", they should very rarely lose it. Crab suck in courts not because they lose their heads forcefully, but because they usually are manipulated into it (just make light, subtly , of their plight and their will either lose it or fumble, 20 composure or not, unless they really trained Courtesy) aor because they are plainly incompetent at it (remember that Yasuki are just turncoat Cranes and not really Crab ? ).

Intrigue I see as something that it is over in a flash, much like a skirmish, it should last 2-3 rounds and this can make most Crane and Bayushi hold their marbles. It starts as a narrative scene with pleasantries and most courtiers trying to assess their enemies connections, weaknesses and strengths, while they engage with their passions to relax a little and etc. And then, boom, there is a rumor flying around, people arguing, somebody (usually the weak link) has his glory/honor called into question, things defuse/escalate appropriately and it is over. Long Intrigues, yeah, Crane and Scorpions will get handled, and good Earth courtiers should try to filibuster intrigues to mess with them that way, but Cranes and Scorpions can also manipulate a court with a well placed "well, that was a little intense , wasn't it? who's up for some sadane? we can continue with this later" granting them some breathing room before they return to cloak and daggers.

I think... considering the crunch in this edition, courts are more and more aligned with the classic fluff if you follow it to its logical conclusion. But well, I don't see a problem with trying to invert things, I guess everyone has their fluff about the Empire on their heads slightly different than the rest.

49 minutes ago, Avatar111 said:

and IF we keep the "wait" action as the designers wants it to be.... you can do some nifty tricks with it... like; move(free) wait, then 2 turns in a row (end of round + your first turn).

If you move before waiting, you're often not going to get to do anything major with that end of round turn though (if your opponent has a lick of sense, at least).

Just now, nameless ronin said:

If you move before waiting, you're often not going to get to do anything major with that end of round turn though (if your opponent has a lick of sense, at least).

Doesn't really change anything. Your free move needs to come either before declaring the Wait action, or after declaring the Wait action but before you end your turn (and therefore before your Waited-for action triggers). I only had one concern about Wait, and it was how you could double-smack with Water stance. The response I got fixed that, so now I'm not worried.

16 minutes ago, JBento said:

Doesn't really change anything. Your free move needs to come either before declaring the Wait action, or after declaring the Wait action but before you end your turn (and therefore before your Waited-for action triggers). I only had one concern about Wait, and it was how you could double-smack with Water stance. The response I got fixed that, so now I'm not worried.

Just putting the "I get somewhere safe, wait, and then go nuclear with my back-to-back turns" concept in perspective. I agree it's not nearly as bad as it's sometimes painted to be here.

yeah, i'm starting to make peace with the wait action and see how it goes as is.

it REALLY does give a huge buffs to Focus secondary stat. (which have honestly... no other use... sadly)

so i might keep the wait action as is for now (with the dev's errata they intend to do).

I am also removing my fix to "school curriculums" as the designer said it was a mistake and that it will be corrected eventually.

the less things to change the better honestly. so overall, i'm happy.

1 hour ago, omnicrone said:

I disagree. The Crab clan are the ones that should be unfazed by most things. In court they are bored, not nervous, and in combat, if they are not fighting horrors most Crane and Scorpion samurai would wet the bed if they caught a glimpse of, they are in a nice vacation called "fighting clan samurai or a peasant revolt", they should very rarely lose it . Crab suck in courts not because they lose their heads forcefully, but because they usually are manipulated into it (just make light, subtly , of their plight and their will either lose it or fumble, 20 composure or not, unless they really trained Courtesy) aor because they are plainly incompetent at it (remember that Yasuki are just turncoat Cranes and not really Crab ? ).

Intrigue I see as something that it is over in a flash, much like a skirmish, it should last 2-3 rounds and this can make most Crane and Bayushi hold their marbles. It starts as a narrative scene with pleasantries and most courtiers trying to assess their enemies connections, weaknesses and strengths, while they engage with their passions to relax a little and etc. And then, boom, there is a rumor flying around, people arguing, somebody (usually the weak link) has his glory/honor called into question, things defuse/escalate appropriately and it is over. Long Intrigues, yeah, Crane and Scorpions will get handled, and good Earth courtiers should try to filibuster intrigues to mess with them that way, but Cranes and Scorpions can also manipulate a court with a well placed "well, that was a little intense , wasn't it? who's up for some sadane? we can continue with this later" granting them some breathing room before they return to cloak and daggers.

I think... considering the crunch in this edition, courts are more and more aligned with the classic fluff if you follow it to its logical conclusion. But well, I don't see a problem with trying to invert things, I guess everyone has their fluff about the Empire on their heads slightly different than the rest.

I think this is the key misconception we are arguing with these changes. What the Hida illustrates is an ability to see something horrific and continue fighting. Is this what Composure is supposed to represent?

Is Composure the same as Willpower? Allowing us to continue to act when we otherwise would flee in terror? Or is Composure the ability to maintain the mask we wear as "civil people?"

If Composure is to represent the willpower to continue to act in spite of seeing horrific things I would expect the accumulation of Strife as representing something unnerving. When your Strife eclipses your Composure I would expect your character to flee, or at least require them to resist fleeing. This means a Bayushi who has never left court would, on the battlefield surely flee before some grotesque being while the Hida may stay and fight.

Is that what we get? I don't think so.

When our Strife eclipses our Composure we enter a state of Compromised. While Compromised the mechanics allow us to continue to act as we wish, for as long as we want. We are not unnerved by what we see, we're not horrified. We do not flee, and do not need to resist fleeing. We simply cannot keep any dice showing Strife results. At the beginning of a turn where we are compromised we may Unmask. The book describes this as " briefly expressing the true emotions beneath the guise of a perfect samurai that society demands they maintain . " It isn't about being emotionally exhausted, or afraid - in fact it is a state of being emotionally charged. When you unmask you gain the benefit of over-performing your next action and lose ALL of your Strife!

This does not sound to me like some character who is in fear of the shadowlands beast but a character who can no longer pretend to be nice, or humble when they are really being aggressive or proud. Does a Hida need to wear a mask on the battlefield? Maybe... but not because of the Shadowlands Oni they are confronting. Before that beast they need no societal facade, they can act honestly and directly. However that same Hida who is used to acting honestly in the battlefield, being easily judged by the merits of his actions (did you live today? did you resist the taint? did you route your enemy?) could find it quite difficult being put in a social situation where he must smile, and pretend to be nice to someone who is literally trying to caste him as a brutish lout in a court where his Lord could be forced to put him on the front lines of the next venture beyond the walls... Bored? No... not bored... Completely out of his element in a world where words can force his hand to action, or inaction? Hida should be terrified ...

How well could someone who is so used to acting honestly adopt a social mask which is essentially one giant lie?

2 hours ago, omnicrone said:

You see, one of the ways of unmasking is Bend Principles, which is as Scorpion as it can get. The way I see it, Bayushi go fast and hard on their objective and if they don't get their way quickly, they compromise, then unmask and fight dirty (and with good air you can actually HIDE your bend of principles, so only Honor is hit, which for a scorpion is *shrugs*). Exposing Openings are also classic Scorpion fare, especially if they are comfortable enough to know their enemies will not be able to capitalize on their weakness or that, if they do, they have a perfect retort waiting in the wings for them to drop a mic with.

I think mechanically there is a problem with this. You can only Unmask once per scene, but you aren't immune to Strife... In your example this would mean the Bayushi is a 1 trick pony. Show up, unmask, and then flee because they would be left compromised if they stayed... Remember Composure isn't just a timer until you unmask, but it is also a very lethal timer after that's happened...

Further - I think the Scorpion naturally bend their principles... they do not need to unmask to do it. Every clan works along its philosophy naturally. This means Scorpion may use dishonorable tactics if there is a job that needs to be done. Crane may use political machinations to complete their aims, no matter how brutal, provided no one died. The Lion believe they may march their armies to settle it "honestly" when words fail them... None of these are examples of unmasking.

Bend of Principles is more like a Lion unmasking to flee rather than fight to the death, or a Crane unmasking to threaten war amidst a political struggle.

5 minutes ago, shosuko said:

I think this is the key misconception we are arguing with these changes. What the Hida illustrates is an ability to see something horrific and continue fighting. Is this what Composure is supposed to represent?

Is Composure the same as Willpower? Allowing us to continue to act when we otherwise would flee in terror? Or is Composure the ability to maintain the mask we wear as "civil people?"

If Composure is to represent the willpower to continue to act in spite of seeing horrific things I would expect the accumulation of Strife as representing something unnerving. When your Strife eclipses your Composure I would expect your character to flee, or at least require them to resist fleeing. This means a Bayushi who has never left court would, on the battlefield surely flee before some grotesque being while the Hida may stay and fight.

Is that what we get? I don't think so.

When our Strife eclipses our Composure we enter a state of Compromised. While Compromised the mechanics allow us to continue to act as we wish, for as long as we want. We are not unnerved by what we see, we're not horrified. We do not flee, and do not need to resist fleeing. We simply cannot keep any dice showing Strife results. At the beginning of a turn where we are compromised we may Unmask. The book describes this as " briefly expressing the true emotions beneath the guise of a perfect samurai that society demands they maintain . " It isn't about being emotionally exhausted, or afraid - in fact it is a state of being emotionally charged. When you unmask you gain the benefit of over-performing your next action and lose ALL of your Strife!

This does not sound to me like some character who is in fear of the shadowlands beast but a character who can no longer pretend to be nice, or humble when they are really being aggressive or proud. Does a Hida need to wear a mask on the battlefield? Maybe... but not because of the Shadowlands Oni they are confronting. Before that beast they need no societal facade, they can act honestly and directly. However that same Hida who is used to acting honestly in the battlefield, being easily judged by the merits of his actions (did you live today? did you resist the taint? did you route your enemy?) could find it quite difficult being put in a social situation where he must smile, and pretend to be nice to someone who is literally trying to caste him as a brutish lout in a court where his Lord could be forced to put him on the front lines of the next venture beyond the walls... Bored? No... not bored... Completely out of his element in a world where words can force his hand to action, or inaction? Hida should be terrified ...

How well could someone who is so used to acting honestly adopt a social mask which is essentially one giant lie?

I think mechanically there is a problem with this. You can only Unmask once per scene, but you aren't immune to Strife... In your example this would mean the Bayushi is a 1 trick pony. Show up, unmask, and then flee because they would be left compromised if they stayed... Remember Composure isn't just a timer until you unmask, but it is also a very lethal timer after that's happened...

exactly, when you unmask, as a crab in a pack of goblins (ok, they were big goblins ok?)... you can hit that "enrage" button. You don't have to flee...

there are different ways to unmask.

but, unmasking is most lethal when in a pack of courtiers than in a pack of goblins. it is after all, an honor/glory lost most of the time.

on the battlefield, maybe the crab decided to let the goblin that just stole his family necklace run away... because, the crab wanted to smash that big ogre in front of him, or was simply so enraged by bloodlust and the fight.

lost a bit of honor.... but maybe gained glory. or a scar, it depends really.

This is what is weird. To me the 2 clans that were the worst at "keeping their cool under duress" was the Scorpion and Crane according to my interpretation of the fluff of previous editions. They are great at manipulating things to go their way, but if they face resistance that can give them a fair fight, they always broke first (except for the Daidoji, of course). Their bushi are fast (with Initiative bonuses and whatnot) and usually ended the skirmish in a single stroke (deadly for Kakita, crippling for Bayushi), but in an extended battle they would just lose their cool to the more sturdy Akodos, Hidas and even Yoritomos. Their courtiers are great at solving things quickly and decisively, manipulating and swaying those of higher status into making decisions in a hurry, but when faced with a good Ikoma or Asako carefully exposing their machinations with reason and jurisprudence and delaying hasty decisions their house of cards almost always fell.

Scorpion are known for playing long cons, but that is always with them acting in the background, without compromising themselves before all pieces were set into place.

Though to me the clan that was king at keeping their cool was the Dragon, and in 5E they aren't particularly stellar at it, unless you are a Togashi.So yeah, hit or miss I guess.

23 minutes ago, omnicrone said:

This is what is weird. To me the 2 clans that were the worst at "keeping their cool under duress" was the Scorpion and Crane according to my interpretation of the fluff of previous editions. They are great at manipulating things to go their way, but if they face resistance that can give them a fair fight, they always broke first (except for the Daidoji, of course). Their bushi are fast (with Initiative bonuses and whatnot) and usually ended the skirmish in a single stroke (deadly for Kakita, crippling for Bayushi), but in an extended battle they would just lose their cool to the more sturdy Akodos, Hidas and even Yoritomos. Their courtiers are great at solving things quickly and decisively, manipulating and swaying those of higher status into making decisions in a hurry, but when faced with a good Ikoma or Asako carefully exposing their machinations with reason and jurisprudence and delaying hasty decisions their house of cards almost always fell.

Scorpion are known for playing long cons, but that is always with them acting in the background, without compromising themselves before all pieces were set into place.

Though to me the clan that was king at keeping their cool was the Dragon, and in 5E they aren't particularly stellar at it, unless you are a Togashi.So yeah, hit or miss I guess.

On the battlefield maybe... but aren't the Lions the ones who would lash out in court? Perhaps you imagine court as a small scene in a bigger combat-fantasy? I imagine court as a constant occupation. All day you're in meetings, detailing policy, proposing solutions and creating problems - all with the PC Police on high alert. If you act out of turn the whole system can collapse on you. Its an all day every day thing.

I kinda wonder what stories you're reading where the Scorpion and Crane fall apart in court? Maybe you can link to some? I would imagine anyone who falls apart fast wouldn't last long in a world where you live and die by the quality of your lie...

-----------------------------

I mean its like this - I've worked physical jobs. They are exhausting, and I've seen injury. I've also worked desk jobs, where I'm talking to clients all day long... I'm trying to sooth over their grievances, sounding convincing and empathetic while also not costing the business any money. I've got to be inspirational, guiding them with the vision their purchase will bring. Each person is a number to me, but must feel like they have an emotional commitment from me. I must react to things I've just heard about, and without any research come off as competent and confident. Make statements which leave me open to research and come back, but don't tell them that!

Guess which job I found more mentally stressful? Which job would fire me if I shouted F$SK in response to anything? Which job cared about what attitude I was perceived to have? Which required me to control my emotions more? Which required more Composure?

all in all making Air part of composure doesn't remove WATER (which is very crab, lion, unicorns) form having decent composure and ways to heal composure!

the "only" ring combination that would be a bit explosive... would be Fire/Earth.

there are basically ONE standard combination (clan, family, school for this family) that would make you unable to pick at least 1water or 1air somewhere.

the Togashi Monks.

and I understand why... because they gave them void so much, they HAD to give them lots of earth because earth is both endurance and composure. I see a design crutch right here... because Earth was too good as both composure/endurance.

so... because i don't want to be bad to togashi monks (though they are honestly super strong anyway!)

I will change the Togashi Monk school to: +1 Void and + 1 any other ring.

and Also the Togashi Family: +1 Void and + 1 any other ring.

it actually suits them better... they have kihos for 4 elements, why start them all in earth?

ok, that being done.

here are the families without the option to pick Air and/or Water:

crabs (but crab give +1 water)

Hida

Kuni

Kaiu

dragons (the clan gives +1 fire, so no composure gain here, an "at risk" case!)

Agasha (but their school gives +1 water, and if you read their family description, its quite thematic.. )

Lion (but lion give +1 water)

matsu

Phoenix (the clan gives +1 void, so no composure gain here, an "at risk" case!)

isawa (but their school is "any 2 rings")

scorpions (but their family gives +1 air)

yogo

unicorns (but unicorns give +1 water)

moto (school give +1 water)

utaku (school give +1 air)

i think that these families having a harder time to have a very good composure from the get go makes much more sense (for my interpretation of composure) than the original design.

and keep in mind, that with the Togashi Order change, nobody from the "standard combinations" is forced to start the game before question #4 with only four composure score.

there is only one non-standard combination that would make you forced to have only 4 composure before question #4:

agasha family in the mirumoto two heaven school

thats all... only one combo (and definitely not a common one!). I am happy with that overall outlook. it really balance things nicely.

Have you guys considered the possibility that all the abilities are not meant to be super powerful? You guys seem to be all about bbn power gaming....just a thought.

1 hour ago, Daeglan said:

Have you guys considered the possibility that all the abilities are not meant to be super powerful? You guys seem to be all about bbn power gaming....just a thought.

Which ability or rule, that I made more powerful with my changes, are you refering to?

Just a question.

56 minutes ago, Avatar111 said:

Which ability or rule, that I made more powerful with my changes, are you refering to?

Just a question.

All of them.

What i am getting from you is power gaming. Not improvements. Why do they need to be more powerful?

5 hours ago, Daeglan said:

All of them.

What i am getting from you is power gaming. Not improvements. Why do they need to be more powerful?

All of them? There are about as many nerfs as buffs.

Thx for your.. opinion? I guess.

12 hours ago, Avatar111 said:

all in all making Air part of composure doesn't remove WATER (which is very crab, lion, unicorns) form having decent composure and ways to heal composure!

the "only" ring combination that would be a bit explosive... would be Fire/Earth.

there are basically ONE standard combination (clan, family, school for this family) that would make you unable to pick at least 1water or 1air somewhere.

the Togashi Monks.

and I understand why... because they gave them void so much, they HAD to give them lots of earth because earth is both endurance and composure. I see a design crutch right here... because Earth was too good as both composure/endurance.

so... because i don't want to be bad to togashi monks (though they are honestly super strong anyway!)

I will change the Togashi Monk school to: +1 Void and + 1 any other ring.

and Also the Togashi Family: +1 Void and + 1 any other ring.

it actually suits them better... they have kihos for 4 elements, why start them all in earth

You can give +Air to the Togashi family if you are having Air have composure. They were Earth/Void fluffwise, but in the crunch they were mostly Air/Void, at least at char creation. But +1 to any also makes them flexible considering elemental kiho and the fact that there are very different sects/philosophies in the order.

I'm still thinking you are way, way, overthinking all of this, but well, it is your houserules.

6 minutes ago, omnicrone said:

You can give +Air to the Togashi family if you are having Air have composure. They were Earth/Void fluffwise, but in the crunch they were mostly Air/Void, at least at char creation. But +1 to any also makes them flexible considering elemental kiho and the fact that there are very different sects/philosophies in the order.

I'm still thinking you are way, way, overthinking all of this, but well, it is your houserules.

I am overthinking it but the more I go, the more it becomes concise and the less changes I am actually making! it is going really good, at least, according to my objectives.

I don't want to have a "bloated" rework. I want to make it as simple/clear and efficient (for my goals).

right now, I am slightly concerned by my rework of the earth stance, because I wonder if it is too strong, or too weak, and i find it hard to tell. that is the one i am mostly "checking" at the moment.

And yeah, Togashi monks being the only kiho users (majorly) in the core book, I am ok they can chose different elements as instead of being too much pushed toward earth or fire kihos, you can make a water or air monk if you feel like it, from the get go. (sure you always have dragon +1 fire) but thats about it. otherwise it is open.

After yesterday's game I want changes for three things:

1. The Matsu Berserker School Ability that is so terrible it can potentially kill the character upon activation.
2. Pelting Hail needs a hit from the nerfhammer.
3. The Hiruma Scout School Ability needs some clarification because using it in Intrigues just didn't feel right.
4. +1: This might be intentional, but the Ide Trader School Ability actually makes selling more difficult .

1 minute ago, AtoMaki said:

After yesterday's game I want changes for three things:

1. The Matsu Berserker School Ability that is so terrible it can potentially kill the character upon activation.
2. Pelting Hail needs a hit from the nerfhammer.
3. The Hiruma Scout School Ability needs some clarification because using it in Intrigues just didn't feel right.
4. +1: This might be intentional, but the Ide Trader School Ability actually makes selling more difficult .

Isn't the Hiruma Scout the one that affects targets with silhouettes 3+?

Just now, JBento said:

Isn't the Hiruma Scout the one that affects targets with silhouettes 3+?

It is the one that lets you change stance after performing an Attack action. But yes, that one too.