Now think about that and its implications. And with all that I mentioned, as tongue-in-cheek as some of it might have been.

Kage

As long as they still die when hit by military grade plasma cannons, I'm ok. It's when they get hit with a vanquisher shell and it fails to puncture their armor that I get upset.

BaronIveagh said:

Is there such a thing as non-military grade plasma cannons?

Atheosis said:

You could use a ghetto rigged one. Blows up after one shot. I wouldn't call that military grade.

nastybutler said:

That sounds more like a suicide bomb with a barrel lol. Have to say the idea that there might be plasma cannon parts around that one could "ghetto rig" seems kind of far-fetched to. The idea that anyone outside the AdMech would have the skills to do it even more so. Though it is an amusing idea.

Atheosis said:

I'd consider the act of using parts from none working plasma powered equipment to make a plasma gun to be "ghetto" enough to count. Sure there my be some have chewed corpse-starch rations in there acting as glue but it works.

It will be interesting to see how they design the SMs to be. In the fiction novels they are all rediculously bada$s. Even in the table top wargamming they can't seem to make them as awesome as they are in the fiction. I think that I will enjoy comparing the standard starting SM to some of the characters from Dark Heresy or Rogue Trader. A starting SM should be able to pretty much whup the snot outta any other standard human.

I think that there is value in starting out with all of the post-human augments that a SM is supposed to have. It would allow people and characters to focus not so much on character advancement and more on the content of a game. There shouldnt be any major increases to Str over the course of a game...it should have started out **** high to begin with. Instead they can focus on improving thier gear, exploring the universe...and stompin the crap outta some xenos.

Atheosis said:

Actually no, marines are not just people with 19 implants on them. The very prerequisite of handling those 19 implants is the successfull integration of "the Geneseed" into the persons genetic code. The moment the marine actually becomes a marine the retrovirus called "the Geneseed" has permanently altered his DNA to the point where it would be very unlikely to produce offspring of any sort.

Not to mention if things grow in proportion good luck finding a female willing to go trought it heh =P

Lucius Valerius said:

Pleasure girls would gladly do it. Terra has a lot of them.

Polaria said:

Please give me a reference...

As far as I'm aware the geneseed doesn't fundamentally alter the Space Marines genetic code. It's already well known that they can't reproduce, but if you were to clone one I'm pretty certain it wouldn't look like a Space Marine. It most certainly wouldn't have all the impants etc.

Atheosis said:

I believe you are correct..

PhoenixBurn said:

That's actually the stance that I take in my own interpretation of Space Marines (for another system). They're pretty much tricked out from the get-go with all the advantages that their enhanced physiology grant them, their training, and their power armour. I've personally upped the relationship between the Marine and the armour, trying to bring in the whole idea that a Marine is ensouled by their weapons. Development through the game is primarily social in terms of "glory" and "reputation," along with "rank," of course, and beyond that being able to trick out the power armour with various abilities. (You can also do that before the game for higher power campaigns.) Thus, the basic conceit is that you start out with normal armour (depending on the power level of the campaign) and then begin to upgrade it into artificer armour. The armour itself has a machine spirit, as do all advanced Imperial systems, and the nature of that spirit can be shaped through upgrades as well.

Hmmn... Sounds incredibly video-game when presented with the options like that. On the other hand, when moderated by cooperative roleplay, it seems to work out quite well.

Maybe that's just me, though.

Kage

Re: Whether the SM can ***** back at will at their inquisitor, who nervously has to cajole them into doing his bidding if he wants anything to happen (or some such, a gazillion posts back in this thread) - I doubt it'll get to that in Deathwatch , the militant arm of Ordo Xenos. Members are hand-picked to join, presumably by the inquisitor in question, and have to remain under his command until he says the mission has been completed. Naturally with a great deal of respect for the individual Marines and their home chapters, but still.

Now, everyone can do what they please with this, and I'm sure there are lots of variations on the fluff out there. Personally, though, in my game I'm going to assume that the inquisitor outranks everybody in the kill-team without any question whatsoever, and that his word is law. He'll probably not "sell" his authority as directly as that, it'll be more interesting having an oily snake kind of =I= around, but if he needs to put his foot down he'll do so.

Sammail said:

Inquisitors don't get to choose what Marines are part of the Deathwatch. Each Chapter chooses who they second, and that's what Deathwatch gets. They have no say in the matter. Now if you're talking about an Inquisitor hand-picking kill-team members, once again I don't think that's the case. An Inquisitor has to petition Deathwatch for a kill-team and they get whoever Deathwatch command sends them. That said, when a Marine is placed under an Inquisitor's command he is expected to follow that Inquisitor's orders. Only in extreme cases would a Deathwatch Marine refuse an order by an Inquisitor, and even then he faces serious consequences unless he can prove treason or heresy on the Inquisitor's part.

Atheosis said:

I'm not sure a SM can't assume command for tactical reasons. Let's say the DW team is lead by an Inq, under normal circumstances he's running the show but let's say they discover the hole bloody planet is under a genestealer infestation and they have to get from point A to point B for extraction or whatever, I'm fairly sure the Astartes commander should take command..

I for one do hope they will be incredibly powerful and 'overpowered'.

In a game triology, it isn't uncommon to have the 3 'level' of power represented...

With White Wolf's 'Aeon Trinity' line, you had the Indiana Jones type heroes portrayed in Adventure!, the operative with psyhich power in Trinity and the living god with Aberrant.

Even in 4th ed D&D, the game is split in 3 distinct tier: Heroic (fight orcs and save the princess/kingdom), Paragon (fight mind flayers and save the world) and Epic (save the universe and slay gods, etc).

Dark Heresy is obviously the low power game, Rogue Trader would be the middle child and logically, Death Watch would be where things go a little crazy.

Relative power level of a game doesn't make it good or bad (I for one like Heroic best of all 3 D&D tier for example), but it is nice to have the option available.

Polaria said:

I think the White Scars would disagree with that. Their Chapter Master has a reputation of being a ladies man, and the Battle Brothers are encouraged to take girlfriends among the locals of their Chapter World, as such offspring, while still human and unmodified, are easier to induct with a lower chance of failure.

Jon D said:

That is a very interesting comment. May I ask what your source is? I hadn't heard about the Great Khan having womanising ways. As far as I have ever known, it is not the function of a Space Marine to procreate, and they have no urge to do so.

Niqvah said:

I can't remember where, but I read it a few years ago and I've seen it referenced by other people since.

Lucius Valerius said:

Lucius Valerius said:

Frankly, I'm not even sure that the Inquisitor will accompany the kill-team. A Space marine can deal with a lot of dangers, moreso in a group. But if you add a human like the inquisitor (who's powerful in his own right, but not as durable as the SM) you get a weak link. And that threatens the whole group.

Another thing would be the fact that the Kill-teams of the Deathwatch are effectively special forces. Which leads them into situations where mission command (the inquisitor and his staff) doesn't have the full picture. Add to this gen. Charles Krulak's real world theory called the "three block war", in which the low-level commanders (corporals, sergeants etc.) must make major decisions based on their current situations, and you have a recipe for disaster when an Inquisitor leads more experienced combat troops into battle. A SM Kill-team shouldn't include an Inquisitor, it shouldn't be remotely controlled by one and should have a broad mission assignment with enough maneuvering room for tactical decisions.

I really hope that Deathwatch, being the premier Imperial force against the Xenos, should have enough experience to prevent Inquisitors throwing their ego's around when ordering a kill-team to go on a mission.

Sammail said:

I think Members get an Invitation and chose to follow them or chosen and send from their chapters. I think Military command would be in the hand of the Teamleader.

Lucius Valerius said:

You do realize that the female anatomy is meant to pass a child right? I just thought you should know, in case you're not aware.

That Blasted Samophlange said:

I know, sex's supposed to be fun not ugmongusly painful =P but hey, who am I do decide, some poeple like horses...

Lucius Valerius said:

Such things would likely depend on the Inquisitor in question. Technically an Inquisitor could maintain his authority in such a situation. That said an Inquisitor with any sense (you don't survive long as an Inquisitor without it) would likely defer to the team leader's superior knowledge and experience in combat situations.