45 minutes ago, Tonbo Karasu said:In what way is "in a one-handed grip" unclear?
It's not, just like the fact that the weapon doesn't need to be able to be gripped in one hand for you to do the technique, because that's part of the effects and not the requirements.
1 hour ago, JBento said:I can assure you there IS such a thing for Iaijutsu technicques with Razor-Edged weapons, MAYBE provided they can be gripped in one hand because this book hasn't been proofread worth a ****. In fact, there's TWO such things, and they're right there in page 179.
If you want to rules-lawyer a poorly written document, maybe. That doesn't mean it makes any sense. It also completely contradicts actual martial arts.
Just to confirm, you agree Yari of Air is a proper yari (spear) because it's a descriptor is in the name? Yet iaijutsu in the kata names descriptor, which means sword drawing art, doesn't apply?
Edited by TalosX1 minute ago, TalosX said:If you want to rules-lawyer a poorly written document, maybe. That doesn't mean it makes any sense. It also completely contradicts actual martial arts.
Just to confirm, you agree Yari of Air is a proper yari (spear) because it's a descriptor is in the name? Yet iaijutsu in the kata names descriptor, which means sword drawing art, doesn't apply?
At least we agree that the book is poorly written. That's something, I guess.
You know what ALSO contradicts martial arts, and also reality? Making people bleed without touching them, and yet here we are, with Crashing Wave Style. One of the Iaijutsu even lets you hit stuff you might not be able to reach, for bonus this-isn't-reality points.
Yari of Air tells you you make a spear, whatever that means in the game - if they launch a weapons supplement with other stuff they describe as a spear, you can make those too right off the bat, I guess? I vaguely recall the Mantis DLC having a spear-like weapon, though I can't recall if that's described as a spear (the yari IS described as a spear in the starting kits).
4 minutes ago, UnitOmega said:
https://www.deviantart.com/daxiong/art/Charge-of-the-Samurai-Tutorial-140938324
I will definitely put together a document in the upcoming days and will send it to them. nothing overwhelming, just pure questions/concerns/opinions/suggestions.
Edited by Avatar111
11 minutes ago, JBento said:You know what ALSO contradicts martial arts, and also reality? Making people bleed without touching them, and yet here we are, with Crashing Wave Style. One of the Iaijutsu even lets you hit stuff you might not be able to reach, for bonus this-isn't-reality points.
that is fair game, you swing your weapon and crashing wave of energy goes everywhere. it is a rank 4 technique. and you don't even need to hit to activate it.
i don't have anything against that.
but yeah, you can't say "reality" is a totally legit argument all the time in a game like this!
For the newbies who may be reading. A Martial Arts check in L5R5 does not represent you swinging a sword to hit somebody, it represents the footwork, positioning, and exchanged blows required to position yourself to strike. The only time a weapon ever contacts a body is during a critical strike.
1 minute ago, ExplodingJoe said:For the newbies who may be reading. A Martial Arts check in L5R5 does not represent you swinging a sword to hit somebody, it represents the footwork, positioning, and exchanged blows required to position yourself to strike. The only time a weapon ever contacts a body is during a critical strike.
or when you used armor resistance to soak dmg ? but i guess armor =/= body.
armor "soaks damage" in that it reduces the fatigue you take from fighting, because you're letting your protection take the blow rather than dodging and manuevering. These are concepts that have been intrinsic to table top gaming since 1st ed DnD, where hit points originally represented the amount of fighting you could handle before being vulnerable to a killing blow. It only got lost when video game rpgs became popular.
8 minutes ago, ExplodingJoe said:armor "soaks damage" in that it reduces the fatigue you take from fighting, because you're letting your protection take the blow rather than dodging and manuevering. These are concepts that have been intrinsic to table top gaming since 1st ed DnD, where hit points originally represented the amount of fighting you could handle before being vulnerable to a killing blow. It only got lost when video game rpgs became popular.
Actually, no. Armour doesn't reduce Fatigue, which is why inflicting Fatigue is better than damage, which is what armour reduces. You take all Fatigue to the face (or to the Endurance) all the time.
EDIT: I'm fairly certain this is how it works, I'll double check later tonight when I get home.
Edited by JBento8 minutes ago, JBento said:Actually, no. Armour doesn't reduce Fatigue, which is why inflicting Fatigue is better than damage, which is what armour reduces. You take all Fatigue to the face (or to the Endurance) all the time.
EDIT: I'm fairly certain this is how it works, I'll double check later tonight when I get home.
you are right.
if something tells you to "take 2 fatigues"
it is much better in that game than something that tells you to "take 2 damages". Because most of the time that damage won't do anything.
for example, look at monk's kihos. lots of the burst effects say "takes physical dmg = to ring" well, my dudes, this is pretty bad when you are fighting bushis in armor
because even a simple Ashigaru armor will reduce that damage by 3.
but if you have an ability that says "the opponent takes 3 fatigues" that is STRONG. it bypass all defenses.
Edited by Avatar111so semantics. got ya.
4 minutes ago, ExplodingJoe said:so semantics. got ya.
all that is not "rule hammering" though.. its really how it works.
and sometimes... to the untrained eye, these things are not clear. it is a really nice mechanic though to separate fatigue and damage, but also link them (damage can turn into fatigue).
Edited by Avatar1111 minute ago, ExplodingJoe said:so semantics. got ya.
The... opposite of semantics, actually?
2 minutes ago, Avatar111 said:all that is not "rule hammering" though.. its really how it works.
It is. A thing does X supernatural or physical "damage". "Damage" is reduced by armor and becomes the amount of fatigue necessary to weather the exchange of blows without leaving a meaningful opening. You're just arguing for the sake of it now.
2 minutes ago, ExplodingJoe said:It is. A thing does X supernatural or physical "damage". "Damage" is reduced by armor and becomes the amount of fatigue necessary to weather the exchange of blows without leaving a meaningful opening. You're just arguing for the sake of it now.
Except if a thing does X Fatigue (and there are a few) you just take the Fatigue to the face.
2 hours ago, Tonbo Karasu said:In what way is "in a one-handed grip" unclear?
You can actually wield a weapon in a one-handed grip even if it does not have a one-handed grip listed. Normally, you can't ready the weapon in a non-existing grip, but if you happen to get the ability to do exactly that, then so be it.
5 minutes ago, ExplodingJoe said:It is. A thing does X supernatural or physical "damage". "Damage" is reduced by armor and becomes the amount of fatigue necessary to weather the exchange of blows without leaving a meaningful opening. You're just arguing for the sake of it now.
true. we all are nitpicking (not arguing, come on
)
over a non-issue right now.
Bento is very words/sentence focused, and as you said it, it was kind of like if Armor reduced Fatigue (which it does not, it only reduce DMG, like the bigger the weapon the more DMG it does).
but yeah, no point in continuing that discussion. but try to understand Bento's style. its not bad per say, he just understand words like mathematic. which is a good boon for a game designer.
Edited by Avatar1113 minutes ago, AtoMaki said:You can actually wield a weapon in a one-handed grip even if it does not have a one-handed grip listed. Normally, you can't ready the weapon in a non-existing grip, but if you happen to get the ability to do exactly that, then so be it.
thats why the iaijutsu rule wording need to be slightly tweaked so that it doesnt become a possiblity to use a 2h weapon with the technique. even if super illogical and you can simply say "it doesnt work" and most non-toxic players would agree, it is still possible. That is an issue with RAW vs RAI. minor issue for me, but still worth mentioning.
4 minutes ago, AtoMaki said:You can actually wield a weapon in a one-handed grip even if it does not have a one-handed grip listed. Normally, you can't ready the weapon in a non-existing grip, but if you happen to get the ability to do exactly that, then so be it.
Anyway, this issue should be become moot (hopefully) soon, because I asked about Iaijutsu techniques in one of my 4 questions to them, so we'll know which way it's going to work when they answer.
I will be honest with you guys, I do want to Iaijutsu cut with naginatas. It is cool and thematic, and I can do a fluffy Shiba Naginata Duelist and not suck dino c*ck.
3 minutes ago, AtoMaki said:I will be honest with you guys, I do want to Iaijutsu cut with naginatas. It is cool and thematic, and I can do a fluffy Shiba Naginata Duelist and not suck dino c*ck.
"How crazy is my GM" test: see if they'll let you forge a Razor-Edged practice sword (if yes, then the test answer is "incredibly so"), and then Iaijutsu with THAT.
2 hours ago, JBento said:It's not, just like the fact that the weapon doesn't need to be able to be gripped in one hand for you to do the technique, because that's part of the effects and not the requirements.
You know what? It isn't worth debating with people who are being deliberately obtuse. Your experience of either gaming or this rulebook or both is so far removed from mine that there is no opportunity for useful discussion. I hope you enjoy whatever game you play, but I shall henceforth be ignoring you and Avatar.
50 minutes ago, JBento said:"How crazy is my GM" test: see if they'll let you forge a Razor-Edged practice sword (if yes, then the test answer is "incredibly so"), and then Iaijutsu with THAT.
Bokken is already OK to use with Iaijutsu Cuts, no need to homerule it.
7 minutes ago, Tonbo Karasu said:You know what? It isn't worth debating with people who are being deliberately obtuse. Your experience of either gaming or this rulebook or both is so far removed from mine that there is no opportunity for useful discussion. I hope you enjoy whatever game you play, but I shall henceforth be ignoring you and Avatar.
hey! I dont agree with them using iaijutsu techniques with 2handed weapons.
i made that clear.
you can still ignore me though.