Synopsis: https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2018/10/11/follow-the-whispers/

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In the clan infamous for its liars, schemers, and secrets, Bayushi Yojiro is known as the “only honest Scorpion." As an Emerald Magistrate, his duty is to uphold the Emperor’s laws and ensure justice is done. As a Scorpion, his duty is to loyally serve the interests of his clan—even if that means sacrificing his own honor. As both, Yojiro walks a line as razor-thin as the edge of a katana.

When a dignitary of a rival clan is murdered in the Scorpion-controlled City of Lies, Yojiro is sent to help investigate and bring the killer to justice. His fellow magistrates expect him to prevent Scorpion interference, while his clan expects him to protect its secrets. Where do his loyalties truly lie, and whom will he be forced to betray?

The book just came out so it may take a couple of days for everyone to start having big discussions. Figured I'd just have the thread ready to go.

My accursed FLGS has nary a copy.

I will be some time in reading this, therefore.

I think this is THE book to get people to read to explain to them how law and order works in Rokugan. What Honor and Duty means, and what clan Loyalty is.

Enjoyed the story a ton, and it kept me invested the entire way through. The last two chapters were especially great, and has me wondering exactly what comes next.

So my big takeaways from this...

Shoju almost certainly knows about the emperor's plans to name him as regent for Daisetsu.

Nothing is confirmed to literally be THE Nothing of the Void's "All and Nothing" moniker.

Ninja and shinobi really aren't the same thing.

I am very interested to see where the Nothing/Shadow goes in this version. Wasn't a huge fan of it in the previous edition.

I love the division between shinobi & ninja. That the first is anyone skilled in underhanded tactics & fighting styles but are hinin as a result. But to be ninja is to be Ronin and to be messing around with the Nothing. They explicitly are a threat to the Empire.

so Shosuro Sadako is shinobi, but if she loses herself to the Nothing after extensive use of the shadow brand, she may become ninja. Also, Aramoro continues to be a jackass, and of course he’s trained in ninjutsu.

5 minutes ago, Doji Hyōkin said:

I love the division between shinobi & ninja. That the first is anyone skilled in underhanded tactics & fighting styles but are hinin as a result. But to be ninja is to be Ronin and to be messing around with the Nothing. They explicitly are a threat to the Empire.

so Shosuro Sadako is shinobi, but if she loses herself to the Nothing after extensive use of the shadow brand, she may become ninja. Also, Aramoro continues to be a jackass, and of course he’s trained in ninjutsu.

I don't think that's quite right, to be ninja is simply to be ronin/acting purely in self interest rather than serving the clan. The Nothing is a separate aspect involving shadowbranding and, from the sounds of it, the occasional shinobi with actual Void sensitivity. The issue with Soshi Ezo was that he had gone rogue and was force-branding new students while ignoring the shinobi's 3 Oaths. The actual shadowbranding, while horrible in Yojiro's eyes, is completely accepted by the Scorpion.

So in Sadako's case, losing herself to the Nothing is only a problem if she ends up going rogue, and therefore becomes ninja. Technically Shosuro herself "lost" herself to the Nothing, and simply emerged as Soshi. Who knows, maybe we'll discover that this is what happened to Sadako, and prior to becoming Sadako she was Ujina's wife.

The real puzzle to me is Aoi, who we have as a rather delightful card despite the fact that she's apparently going to be executed. I have to wonder if the Scorpion intend to fake her death so they can keep her...she seems to have a decent amount of talent and understand the principles of duty. The fact that she somehow survived and healed away her shadowbranding surely must be piquing some interest in the Scorpion/shinobi hierarchy as well.

Fair enough. Given that to be Shinobi is to be hinin, not samurai, they can’t really be ronin in that sense, so ninja instead.

I like that Yojiro, the ‘Honest Scorpion’ managed to conceal the 10 year old death of an excellent Kitsuki investigator, destroy his reputation by having him labeled a child-stealer, while also tarnishing the reputations of the Oromo & Seppun magistrates in the city.

I found it odd that all of Yojiro's righteous anger and determination to bring the Scorpion's use of shinobi to light faded away as soon as Aramoro said, "all the clans are doing it" and that the victim was evil. In a few short sentences, Yojiro just abandoned everything that he had built up over the whole book, about how repugnant shinobi were and accepted that the clan's use for them was justified.

Still, with that being his decision, the rest of the book played out well. I liked the scene at the end with Shoju. Seems like he's knowingly waging a war against his wife and his half-brother, and is looking for a right-hand man he can trust.

Edit: Maybe I'm underestimating the implicit need for the Scorpion to be on top of the food chain, to members of the Scorpion. If other clans are going to have shinobi, then *of course* the Scorpion has to as well, it can't be helped. That could explain Yojiro's immediate acceptance of the practice.

Also, if I recall, Yojiro's decision around the Emerald Championship seemed to revolve around how to follow his orders and preserve his own honesty. There wasn't much of an awareness of "This is not what is best for the Clan," it was more of the selfishness that we saw in this novel. I wonder if Shoju's evaluation of him would have been different if he realized that. But I suppose it doesn't matter, since Yojiro seems to be in that mindset now. It's an interesting point of evolution for an interesting character.

2 hours ago, AradonTemplar said:

I found it odd that all of Yojiro's righteous anger and determination to bring the Scorpion's use of shinobi to light faded away as soon as Aramoro said, "all the clans are doing it" and that the victim was evil. In a few short sentences, Yojiro just abandoned everything that he had built up over the whole book, about how repugnant shinobi were and accepted that the clan's use for them was justified.

It may be the Yojiro has a sense of "fair play." It is one thing to believe that your clan is winning because it is the best, it is another thing to find out your clan is winning due to "cheating." The reveal that all the clans use shinobi turned "cheating" into "secret game everyone is playing."

9 hours ago, Ultimatecalibur said:

It may be the Yojiro has a sense of "fair play." It is one thing to believe that your clan is winning because it is the best, it is another thing to find out your clan is winning due to "cheating." The reveal that all the clans use shinobi turned "cheating" into "secret game everyone is playing."

I think you’ve nailed it there. He helps Aramoro cheat because he’s ordered to, but he warns Toturi so that he feels less personally compromised and even then he’s thinking about if Shoju & Kachiko want the same things.

Likewise, I think that finding out that all the clans likely have shinobi, along with the revelation of how effectively the Kitsuki were spying on the Scorpion helped him see Eku as an actual rogue element. In which case Aramoro was doing exactly what the Scorpion are supposed to do, using his skills against an enemy of the Empire, not another clan.

The description of Shoju at the end was so much fun to read.

The way they described all the villagers seemed a little off. I could not tell who was meant to be Samurai and who were peasants in the bazaar. Are the castes not that far off as some other fictional describe?

13 hours ago, Spawnod said:

The description of Shoju at the end was so much fun to read.

The way they described all the villagers seemed a little off. I could not tell who was meant to be Samurai and who were peasants in the bazaar. Are the castes not that far off as some other fictional describe?

in Ryoko Owari, in previous editions at least, the caste differences are much much lessened compared to the rest of the empire.

Man I love being at least partially right.

Seriously.

Finished the novella a week or so ago.

The writing was very evocative, the whole shinobi thing was also interesting, but... Yojiro came off as a weird Scorpion for me. Like, I am not sure I understand how he got to be an Emerald Magistrate, or even survive as a Scorpion, and not offered as a scapegoat early on. He has status, yet seems to know almost nothing of his own clan. He is not a good fighter, and while he has some skills, nothing that screams to me "this guy might be an idiot (in Scorpion terms) but has useful skills". Him being surprised at Shinobi also came off as pretty naive, so I'm not sure how much we're supposed to sympathize here.

Kachiko kind of building her own personal mini-empire/entourage is interesting, seeing how involved Yojiro and Aramoro are in her personal affections. Shoju, as a counterpoint, is trying to balance Kachiko's ambitions. Pretty interesting, and I'm kind of looking forward to a potential Scorpion civil war.

3 hours ago, Horvagab said:

The writing was very evocative, the whole shinobi thing was also interesting, but... Yojiro came off as a weird Scorpion for me. Like, I am not sure I understand how he got to be an Emerald Magistrate, or even survive as a Scorpion, and not offered as a scapegoat early on. He has status, yet seems to know almost nothing of his own clan. He is not a good fighter, and while he has some skills, nothing that screams to me "this guy might be an idiot (in Scorpion terms) but has useful skills". Him being surprised at Shinobi also came off as pretty naive, so I'm not sure how much we're supposed to sympathize here.

Plausible. Deniability.

Junshin are "Honest Scorpions," and they're great for the Clan. They are the ones that you let handle things when you need plausible deniability, because you don't really tell them the icky details, and they just go out there, can be fully honest that they have no concrete knowledge of these 'shinobi' you tell your children about as scary stories to get them to behave.

Because, c'mon, he's an honest guy, he wouldn't lie about something like that.

I get Junshin, but I still feel Yojiro is... clueless. To an extreme level. Like he is not even part of his own clan. I still don't get why he was put up as a Junshin, unless he was the only one accepted or nominated by the late EC, but I still feel the Scorps should have been able to push someone more useful. My main issue is that in this novel I don't understand what his actual job is? In the earlier fiction, he was involved in the trickery for Championship, even with misgivings, but that feels like a different character.

Like.. he knew of some underhanded things, and participated in a different way. Here, he feels like an absolute outsider to his own clan. He was even in Kachiro's circle, but I still don't understand what he was doing there. And plausible deniability only works to a certain extent. I am not sure that Yojiro could be used to do some stuff that he can deny. Perhpas he did more dirty work in the past, like in the pre-EC fiction, but that is not what I am getting from this book. I am getting him being baffled by everything his clan does.

9 hours ago, Horvagab said:

I get Junshin, but I still feel Yojiro is... clueless. To an extreme level. Like he is not even part of his own clan. I still don't get why he was put up as a Junshin, unless he was the only one accepted or nominated by the late EC, but I still feel the Scorps should have been able to push someone more useful. My main issue is that in this novel I don't understand what his actual job is? In the earlier fiction, he was involved in the trickery for Championship, even with misgivings, but that feels like a different character.

Like.. he knew of some underhanded things, and participated in a different way. Here, he feels like an absolute outsider to his own clan. He was even in Kachiro's circle, but I still don't understand what he was doing there. And plausible deniability only works to a certain extent. I am not sure that Yojiro could be used to do some stuff that he can deny. Perhpas he did more dirty work in the past, like in the pre-EC fiction, but that is not what I am getting from this book. I am getting him being baffled by everything his clan does.

Shinobi are the worse offense a clan can have. So it would make sense that only a privileged few would know about it and the shadow brands are probably even less people. Yojiro may have been one of Kachiko's underlings, but he was nowhere near Aramoro's level. He was also going through personal turmoil (honor vs duty). Also, being a courtier in Otsun Uchi probably left him separated from the machinations of the clan outside the city that other scorpion's would have to deal with.

I do agree though he is not the best fighter, but he is a great courtier and a decent investigator. Like a emerald magistrate should be.

When I read “Aoi” and “Takao” I was like... Where I’ve heard those names before?

Then I remember those were cards, I went to look at them and realized the background is the same for the two (they are in the same place, at least), which I assume is the Fortuitous Wind.

Those little details are the ones that make me feel like the cards are really part of this world and are “alive”.

Really liked Shoju turning up at the end. Also really liked that it was all a test and multiple people were watching Yojiro for different reasons to see how he handled the case.

I was surprised Yojiro knew so little about his own clan's Shinobi activities. Also that he was so shocked that they were employing Shinobi. I do get confused sometimes on just how much the average Scorpion knows about some of the more clandestine Scorpion stuff. This certainly came down on the side of the average Scorpion being mostly ignorant to stuff like Shinobi and shadow magic. I do like that once he came to the realization that all clan's used Shinobi he also realized it was the Scorpion's duty to be better at it than the other clans.

I'm curious how Kachiko and Shoju view Yojiro now. Do they think they can trust him? It seems like Shoju does at the end since he's bringing him into his confidence. I guess we'll see. I'm guessing Yojiro's actions to help Toturi probably also helped Shoju. From what I recall Shoju didn't want Aramoro to be Emerald Champion. I wonder if part of his reasoning was to put Toturi in the position he's currently in with him being in the middle of a succession crisis. One that Shoju could potentially benefit from greatly. Also Shoju didn't like that they were calling too much attention to the Scorpion by seizing too much power and making unsubtle moves. Having a dude close to the Emerald Champion who is loyal to you, but also has a reputation like Yojiro's is probably a real great boon for Shoju. Also he knows Yojiro is willing to be disloyal to Kachiko and Aramoro if he feels they are going too far, which is probably an attractive trait for Yojiro to have in Shoju's eyes. Really feels like we might be headed to a Scorpion clan civil war. That would be pretty awesome IMO.

9 hours ago, phillos said:

Really feels like we might be headed to a Scorpion clan civil war. That would be pretty awesome IMO.

#ScorpionClanCoup #butnotaClanhavingaCoup #ratheraCoupwithintheClan

It seems strange to me that Emerald Magistrates are not expected to be loyal to the Emperor and the Emerald Champion above and beyond their clan.

Aren't they? I thought that's why Toturi felt it acceptable to send Yojiro alone to the city, because his duty would be directly to the Empire, and would supercede any duty to cover or preserve the Scorpion Clan.

6 hours ago, AradonTemplar said:

Aren't they? I thought that's why Toturi felt it acceptable to send Yojiro alone to the city, because his duty would be directly to the Empire, and would supercede any duty to cover or preserve the Scorpion Clan.

No Scorpion seems to think so. Yojiro ends up deciding that choosing his duty to his actual boss would be equal to being a ronin.

Emerald Magistrates are, indeed, expected to place their loyalty and duty to the Empire (and, by extension, the Emperor and Emerald Champion) above all other considerations. The key phrase, of course, is "expected to". Emerald Magistrates are people, too, and bring a range of values and beliefs and biases and the like to the job. This is even kinda recognized by the institution, insofar as EMs are assigned, as much as possible, to parts of the Empire that AREN'T their own clan's lands.

Moreover, I don't think it's right to say NO Scorpion thinks they owe their loyalty to Empire before clan; in fact, the whole "Scorpion are loyal to the clan above else" is, frankly, a little overstated. It actually diminishes them as characters to apply this blanket "absolute, unbending loyalty to the clan" above all else thing to them. Some are undoubtedly like that. Some aren't. That tension between loyalty to clan/loyalty to Empire/own interests, when those things don't necessarily coincide, is what makes Scorpion characters (and, really, characters from pretty much any clan) interesting.