Here's the Situation.

I'm blue player.

Start of a round.

I reveal my opponent reveals

I place Sorry about the Mess into my hand. He discards Change of Plans .

We now reveal new cards.

I reveal my opponent reveals

I discard Change of Plans . My opponent places Push back into his hand.

THE QUESTION: Am I now allowed to play Sorry about the Mess again?

If it's a command card in your hand, then of course you can choose to play it. You've already resolved the text of his Change of Plans, so there's no longer a limitation on your choice.

The question would be why your opponent chose to put it back into your hand in the first place, but yes, it's perfectly legal.

exactly...after the first draw of cards, I would have let you play first while I issue orders to three units...

The "HAN goes first" effect is not good enough to waste my orders in one turn.

Quote

• Some command cards have abilities that provide players with unique game effects. Each ability describes when and how it is resolved.

• Each command card that has not been returned to a player’s command hand is discarded during the End Phase and its effect ends.

Rules as written, command cards (that have not been returned to your hand) have their effect end during the End Phase. So, both copies of Change of Plans are blocking one card for the entire round.

If you try to interpret that those two clauses are contingent - that command cards effects' end because the card is discarded, and not just at the same time - then either Change of Plans wouldn't even work normally once, since it's immediately discarded; or it works for the entire rest of the game , because it can't be discarded a second time during the End Phase. Either way it doesn't make sense.

Unless I've missed a rules clause somewhere, RAW it seems to be either unclear ; or rules that CoP continues to block the originally selected card during the third command step .

I don't really see any way to support the argument that CoP #1 clearly only works during command step #2, with the current rules as written. At most, it's ambiguous.

1 hour ago, svelok said:

Rules as written, command cards (that have not been returned to your hand) have their effect end during the End Phase. So, both copies of Change of Plans are blocking one card for the entire round.

If you try to interpret that those two clauses are contingent - that command cards effects' end because the card is discarded, and not just at the same time - then either Change of Plans wouldn't even work normally once, since it's immediately discarded; or it works for the entire rest of the game , because it can't be discarded a second time during the End Phase. Either way it doesn't make sense.

Unless I've missed a rules clause somewhere, RAW it seems to be either unclear ; or rules that CoP continues to block the originally selected card during the third command step .

I don't really see any way to support the argument that CoP #1 clearly only works during command step #2, with the current rules as written. At most, it's ambiguous.

I agree with you, this needs official clarification as per the rules isn't 100% clear

4 hours ago, svelok said:

is discarded during the End Phase and its effect ends.

To my logic, since Change of Plans tells you to discard it prematurely, its effect also ends when it is discarded - it would not persist through the entire round as the card is not in play.

However, yes, this should get clarified since my logic isn't everyone's logic.

4 minutes ago, Turan said:

To my logic, since Change of Plans tells you to discard it prematurely, its effect also ends when it is discarded - it would not persist through the entire round as the card is not in play.

That's the issue - if its effect ends when it's discarded, then it doesn't even work - when your opponent is selecting their new command card, CoP has already been discarded, and therefore is no longer active.

So it can't work that way - to work the way you'd think it should, it would have to keep working after being discarded, but then stop working at some (arbitrary) point in time after the second round of card selection and/or at the end of the turn, despite no card text or game rules identifying that timing window.

RAW, it has to either work for the entire round, the entire game , or not work at all .

1 minute ago, svelok said:

it would have to keep working after being discarded

I understand what you're saying. I disagree, because it doesn't have a continuing effect - it has an immediate, right now, you choose cards again and you can't choose this.

I would agree with you if it had a continuing effect like "Discard this card. Return to the Select Command step. Whenever you activate a trooper unit, it gains a Dodge token."

10 minutes ago, Turan said:

To my logic, since Change of Plans tells you to discard it prematurely, its effect also ends when it is discarded - it would not persist through the entire round as the card is not in play.

However, yes, this should get clarified since my logic isn't everyone's logic.

The thing with Change of Plans is that it is different to every other Command Card so far because it breaks the rule that it's effect ends when it is discarded, because it doesn't end. You discard the card to return the command card of your opponent to his hand, but even though Change of Plans was already discarded, there's still an effect in play which doesn't let your opponent to play that same card again.
That lead us to the question of when does that 2nd effect end? is at the end of the round like other command cards or is just for the next command phase which is right away?
I think that only FFG crew can enlighten us on that

1 minute ago, Lemmiwinks86 said:

I think that only FFG crew can enlighten us on that

I agreed with that in your quotation.

in that situation , im100% certain you wouldnt be able to select the original card. Otherwise it would make the original change of plans a waste of time for any Han v Han scenario as you could invalidate their use of change of plans by playing your own change of plans as a reactive move. Meaning there would little point in playing change of plans except as a reactive measure invalidating thhe card entirely and making it a waste of time to play.

IE play card X against Change of plans banning card X for further use this roud

play change of plans against the new choice. Call it card Y

so does it make sense that Card X can be played and Card Y can simplh because you held back on your own change of plans until your opponent used it. On the third draw both Card X and Card Y are not allowed which gives both players equal benefit from having played and used change of plans rather than the reactive pkayer being the onoy one to benefit.

To suggest otherwise makes playing Change of Plans a complete waste of time and worse then using standing orders as you would be always better holding it until your opponent played theirs.

Edit IE if the effect did not persist there would be no point in playing Change of Plans at all if you know your opponent has it because by doing so you are essentially just discarding the card for no benefit, as they would always have the opportunity of playing theirs and just replacing the card originally played.

11 hours ago, syrath said:

in that situation , im100% certain you wouldnt be able to select the original card. Otherwise it would make the original change of plans a waste of time for any Han v Han scenario as you could invalidate their use of change of plans by playing your own change of plans as a reactive move. Meaning there would little point in playing change of plans except as a reactive measure invalidating thhe card entirely and making it a waste of time to play.

IE play card X against Change of plans banning card X for further use this roud

play change of plans against the new choice. Call it card Y

so does it make sense that Card X can be played and Card Y can simplh because you held back on your own change of plans until your opponent used it. On the third draw both Card X and Card Y are not allowed which gives both players equal benefit from having played and used change of plans rather than the reactive pkayer being the onoy one to benefit.

To suggest otherwise makes playing Change of Plans a complete waste of time and worse then using standing orders as you would be always better holding it until your opponent played theirs.

Edit IE if the effect did not persist there would be no point in playing Change of Plans at all if you know your opponent has it because by doing so you are essentially just discarding the card for no benefit, as they would always have the opportunity of playing theirs and just replacing the card originally played.

There is a point. Sure your opponent can use his own change of plans to be able to use his original command card (if the effect lasts only for the next command card), but he won't have it later to counter another of your command cards

4 hours ago, Lemmiwinks86 said:

There is a point. Sure your opponent can use his own change of plans to be able to use his original command card (if the effect lasts only for the next command card), but he won't have it later to counter another of your command cards

however the best, and only viable tactic would be to play the card you want to have p!ayed, and just counter the change of plans . this then leads to the reactor Always having the tactical benefit meaning that both change of plans are nullified but only the reactor gets a full choice. which means the onky tactical play isnt to play.