1 hour ago, buckero0 said:the questions are, do the designers feel that the Rebels Faction is that far behind the other two factions to need this "crutch" or was it poorly designed and how will they design around it for the future?
They could have just given the Spectres better statlines and left off the +1 damage +1 block on Spectre Cell and then the Rebel faction would have been in a great place list-building wise even with Doubt in the meta.
15 hours ago, Tvboy said:"Kill Sabine" is not a great answer when it means you are ignoring Ezra, Kanan and Zeb who are going to be in your face first and dealing a ton of damage and extremely hard to kill.
This is so true based on my experience playing Spectre Cell. It is SO easy to keep Sabine safe and still relevant to the game. I had a game the other day where Sabine literally didn't perform a single attack, but she easily got her points back by tossing grenades and sitting safely in the deployment zone playing RG. She is such a great finisher/cleanup. You cannot afford to waste time trying to get to her while Ezra, Kanan, and Zeb, the real damage dealers in the list, are in your face. If your opponent put Sabine in a position where she could get shot easily, they probably misplayed.
2 hours ago, buckero0 said:do the designers feel that the Rebels Faction is that far behind the other two factions to need this "crutch"?
Then they did it wrong. I will even play it with my Rebel Care Package in my Merc list.
Maybe Sabine will replace Hera in my Merc list ...
My problem with SC is that it doesn't help the Rebel faction at all, it just created this new faction called Spectre Cell. There are a few command cards that are great for rebels, Hour of Need is one that comes to mind, but overall it did nothing to improve the existing content.. they just put a fresh coat of paint over top of the old one without sanding it down. We all know eventually that will peel off, just like eventually the player base will sour on SC.
I would have much rather had strong individuals who can complement existing lists with a higher cost.. or how about some good force user cards to regen characters like Luke and Obi.
It's early so the sky is falling yet, we've got a very creative playerbase that will be figuring out some really unique and cool lists for Regionals, so I get that, but as a Rebel player I am still just very disappointed they decided to go this route.
Edited by FrogTriggerI think newhan and drokatta are amazing and the rebels have the best support in the game, I don't know that they needed the graffiti though.
Just adding the boost to hit/block on Kanan, Ezra, Zeb and Sabine would have made them all monsters in any other Rebel list.
21 hours ago, FrogTrigger said:I would have much rather had strong individuals who can complement existing lists with a higher cost.. or how about some good force user cards to regen characters like Luke and Obi.
Okay, devil's advocate here--I'm not sure where I stand yet on the whole Rebel Graffiti / Spectre Cell drama.
But something to consider: if the new Spectres had been designed to stand on their own, then the Rebel faction would just have continued with "Okay, first consideration: do I design my squad based on 35 or 31 points?"
This way, at least Rebels have one squad that does not automatically include Gideon and C-3P0. It still includes Hera, but with a different enough feel imo. And on first examination, at least some of the new Spectres seem decent to include outside of their Cell.
Possibly a flawed execution by FFG, but I do think there were some good reasons for their efforts.
2 hours ago, IndyPendant said:Okay, devil's advocate here--I'm not sure where I stand yet on the whole Rebel Graffiti / Spectre Cell drama.
But something to consider: if the new Spectres had been designed to stand on their own, then the Rebel faction would just have continued with "Okay, first consideration: do I design my squad based on 35 or 31 points?"
This way, at least Rebels have one squad that does not automatically include Gideon and C-3P0. It still includes Hera, but with a different enough feel imo. And on first examination, at least some of the new Spectres seem decent to include outside of their Cell.
Possibly a flawed execution by FFG, but I do think there were some good reasons for their efforts.
Spectre Cell not having Rebel Care Package in it is just superficial, Spectre Cell is basically a 2 point self-contained RCP that is actually stronger than the original. Free movement points, extra damage, extra defense, but wihout having to consider positioning or activation order at all which is required to use RCP correctly.
Pretty much every Imperial list starts with the same 6 points. 2 Officers, RBF and Zillo. Imperial Officers are just as ubiquitous in Imperial lists as Gideon and 3PO are, and are just as critical as linchpins for enabling the Empire's "in your face" playstyle, yet for some reason nobody complains about them. IMO, there's nothing wrong with factions having faction-specific staples, that's what creates faction identity.
2 hours ago, IndyPendant said:And on first examination, at least some of the new Spectres seem decent to include outside of their Cell.
This is where you lost me, because at first glance it didn't appear this way, and upon testing it remains that way. Sabine is really the only viable solo option out of the (new) bunch and that is mostly just in a scum hunter list because of her Hunter trait.
I'm all for putting them together as a team, I thought thematically that was really neat, but the design of it hurt these individuals from being used anywhere BUT in SC.
Edited by FrogTrigger1 hour ago, FrogTrigger said:I'm all for putting them together as a team, I thought thematically that was really neat, but the design of it hurt these individuals from being used anywhere BUT in SC.
Not every figure is supposed to be tier 1. There are some list types where you can easily fit in some of the other spectres. Sabine as you mentioned. Ezra's movement utility is still great outside of spectre cell and the smuggler trait gives him access to some of the best command cards in the game. Lsing the auto damage has to be weighed against their access to focus and they all still have solid health pools.
Zeb and Kanan probably will see the least play outside of the group, but both have interesting abilities that can be powerful in other lists. Jedi Luke, or even Han with a defensive re-roll could be gross.
FWIW: Splinter Cell seems designed to address 3 issues in order to make the all-Spectre list competitive:
I think that this list-assist was needed and I'm hoping that having a straightforward & thematic list helps bring new players to the skirmish game. However, the degree to which it accomplices this while maintaining an appropriate power levels for both stray Spectres and the Spectre list as a whole is something that's going to take the community a few months to really iron out.
anyone considered running SC without chopper and using more upg?
Like double Extra Armor and Rebel High Command?
1 hour ago, Arviss said:anyone considered running SC without chopper and using more upg?
Yup. One of my first thoughts.
I think the activation loss is too detrimental
On 9/3/2018 at 6:40 PM, Fightwookies said:Jabba’s set a new power curve. Since then, everything has fit pretty well at that curve.
Yes, I fully agree. I was only sharing my experience on the FFG buisness model. I am not even saying Power creep is bad, Power creep that evolves the game and makes it more fun is good. Rebel grafitti is an example of a good and slightly meta changing command card same as I suspect that Thrawn will be. I am frankly suprised there is so little talk about his Strategize effect as it is truly game altering. Both Sabine and Thrawn I suspect will draw a lot of aggro and force difficult desicions.
On 9/6/2018 at 9:24 AM, aermet69 said:Yup. One of my first thoughts.
Chopper is a valuable tool for denying or punishing going for terminals. That combined with the extra activation would probably out value and upgrades you could take.
I played with Sabine and this card. It was fun the first few times I played it but then it felt like I was cheating and playing a cheap game. I will not be using this card out of respect for my opponents.