On 2/11/2019 at 12:23 PM, Zrob314 said:

You also need to keep in mind the maximum range. Let's say shyla is 11 away from a stormtrooper and the app says the trooper will move and shoot her. He can get to a spot where she is within maximum range thus the target is a legal target. (max range on a blue/green being 8). They would have to take the shot and ignore the melee character right next to them.

Max range on blue/green is 8, but with the right roll a storm trooper can hit a target from range 9. So RAW, he’s taking that 1% (to do damage, 8% to hit) shot, too.

27 minutes ago, Uninvited Guest said:

Max range on blue/green is 8, but with the right roll a storm trooper can hit a target from range 9. So RAW, he’s taking that 1% (to do damage, 8% to hit) shot, too.

You mean from a surge?
That doesn't work, because that would go directly against the surge priority chart.

They'd have to get 2 surges to even get down to the accuracy surge and then their max range would be 7. (2 [with hit and surge] from green, three [with hit and surge] from blue 2 from the surge)

@udat it's not whether you would take the shot, it's whether the AI would take the shot. it has to attempt all legal attacks no matter how improbable they are.

I believe the accuracy surge is a special case - if they don't need the accuracy they will skip over it to get something more useful, and if they do need it, that's what they spend the surge on first. If that's not the actual rule, it seems a sensible thing to do anyway.

29 minutes ago, Zrob314 said:

You mean from a surge?
That doesn't work, because that would go directly against the surge priority chart.

Surge priority means priority, it's not a straight-up list like the activation instruction list. You skip a line on surge priority if spending the surge doesn't change the result of the attack.

If the attack doesn't have the required accuracy, the surge is not spent on damage but on accuracy.

In the same way, surges are not spent on conditions if the attack would not cause the target to suffer damage, but on damage/Pierce.

If there are surges left, you return to the top of the surge priority list.

(Edit: Also, activation bonus for Stormtroopers often has bonus accuracy or an extra green die for their first attack, and/or elite Stormtroopers becoming focused for Last Stand.)

For example, the Trooper shoots at range 8, and the defence dice has a single block result. Let's assume his surge priority is as you say, +1 damage, +2 Accuracy.

If the attack dice are the range 5 and 3 faces, that's 3 damage vs 1 block, so 2 damage. Simple.

If the attack dice are range 5 blue (1 damage) and range 2 green with a surge and a damage, then adding a surge damage would have "no effect" as accuracy is insufficient. So the surge is spent on accuracy.

57 minutes ago, a1bert said:

.If there are surges left, you return to the top of the surge priority list.

I still don't think that making the attack on an assumption of surge is a reasonable interpretation, as this will lead to fewer imperial hits and that is most definitely not the intent of the app or the imperial rule. But it's not like our opinions impact how another person plays the solo app.

I think calculating max range off the dice irrespective of surges is the more reasonable course.

1 minute ago, Zrob314 said:

I still don't think that making the attack on an assumption of surge is a reasonable interpretation, as this will lead to fewer imperial hits and that is most definitely not the intent of the app or the imperial rule. But it's not like our opinions impact how we play the solo app.

I think calculating max range off the dice irrespective of surges is the more reasonable course.

I agree, I normally wouldn't make an attack where I needed surges to make the accuracy, especially not if there were more compelling targets. Maybe if I was shooting at the last healthy Rebel hero...

11 minutes ago, a1bert said:

Also, activation bonus for Stormtroopers often has bonus accuracy or an extra green die for their first attack, and/or elite Stormtroopers becoming focused for Last Stand.

Last night it was Pierce for us - usually 1 pierce for each member of the squad alive at activation. Troopers with inherent Pierce 3 were ripping through our black defence dice heroes.

9 minutes ago, Zrob314 said:

I think calculating max range off the dice irrespective of surges is the more reasonable course.

It's completely everyone's own choice.

I think you would still take bonus accuracy from the activation bonus into account?

If a Stormtrooper would roll three green and blue, I would definitely make a shot that requires somewhat more than 5 accuracy.

I have had quite few misses due to accuracy in the app campaigns, some quite long-shots from Imperial Officers have succeeded (and they often have accuracy bonus anyway).

44 minutes ago, a1bert said:

It's completely everyone's own choice.

I think you would still take bonus accuracy from the activation bonus into account?

If a Stormtrooper would roll three green and blue, I would definitely make a shot that requires somewhat more than 5 accuracy.

I have had quite few misses due to accuracy in the app campaigns, some quite long-shots from Imperial Officers have succeeded (and they often have accuracy bonus anyway).

I was talking only about surge accuracy, I would of course calculate automatic bonus accuracy into max range.

But, just to be clear:

An elite Death Trooper would have a max range of 6 (auto 4 plus max 2 possible from yellow die) while a regular Death Trooper would have a max range of 5 (auto 3 plus max 2 possible from yellow die).

1 hour ago, Zrob314 said:

I still don't think that making the attack on an assumption of surge is a reasonable interpretation, as this will lead to fewer imperial hits and that is most definitely not the intent of the app or the imperial rule. But it's not like our opinions impact how another person plays the solo app.

I tend to agree regarding how to play it, but the rules don't make any mention of it so I can't agree regarding the intent; I also don't disagree. At the very least I don't see how you can be so certain to use the words "most definitely" to assert you point (though I don't see why you bring up the Imperial Rule, it's strictly a tie breaker).

Just curious: you mention the assumption of a surge. If the bonus gave you a free surge would take the shot since it's no longer assumed? Personally, I think I would if I were playing solo.

6 hours ago, Uninvited Guest said:

I tend to agree regarding how to play it, but the rules don't make any mention of it so I can't agree regarding the intent; I also don't disagree. At the very least I don't see how you can be so certain to use the words "most definitely" to assert you point (though I don't see why you bring up the Imperial Rule, it's strictly a tie breaker).

Just curious: you mention the assumption of a surge. If the bonus gave you a free surge would take the shot since it's no longer assumed? Personally, I think I would if I were playing solo.

As to intent: The imperial Rule is there to make things as hard as possible for the players and t remind the players to take actions that are to their detriment. I think that saying the intent behind the development of any co-op game is to make it very hard for the players to get a win is pretty well born out by playing pretty much any co-op game published in the last 10 years.

As to having an a free surge, there is still an "assumption of a surge" because the target might roll an evade. It's an edge case. It's also a game you and I will never play together.

15 hours ago, Zrob314 said:

It's also a game you and I will never play together.

Well... Challenge accepted! 🤣