10 minutes ago, kmanweiss said:

Most boardgamers I know are completionists. They buy expansions for games even if they don't play it often. Heck, I know some people that won't even touch a kickstarter game (after the campaign) that had exclusive bonuses for supporters because they know they won't have those exclusives and will feel like somehow their game is less than perfect. While this unique concept might work in a card game like Keyforge, and it might work as a casual game sold on a shelf at Target, It just feels like it's aimed at the wrong people in this case.

Yeah, this feels like it's specifically designed to target people who collect and targets them because they collect.

I am known to collect the "full game" of games I really enjoy but I tend to take a long time to do so (just now finishing out my collection of Firefly: The Game and that hasn't had a new release since early last year). Most of the time it's because I could have a new game with different mechanics, theme, player amount and feel than just making a single game more extensive.

I've also had my time playing games with random draws of product (Heroclix) and don't ever want to return to games with that sort of distribution model.

How does this target completionists? No way is someone going to try and complete a game that very obviously cannot be completer.

You can also very easily buy secondhand copies that are known. No one is forcing you to buy blind.

As a completionist myself I have to say that I really dislike this approach. It just sounds gimmicky. I'd rather buy scenario packs than knowing there is some (or possibly quite a lot) content out for this game, which I will newer own.

And since I know I would certainly buy multiple copies of this game, I'll rather not own it, than owning only parts of it. It's a shame, because it looks very nice.

And yes, I totally get that this approach of mine might seem strange, but this is a kind of game I'll have to stay away from.

4 minutes ago, DerDelphi said:

As a completionist myself I have to say that I really dislike this approach. It just sounds gimmicky. I'd rather buy scenario packs than knowing there is some (or possibly quite a lot) content out for this game, which I will newer own.

And since I know I would certainly buy multiple copies of this game, I'll rather not own it, than owning only parts of it. It's a shame, because it looks very nice.

And yes, I totally get that this approach of mine might seem strange, but this is a kind of game I'll have to stay away from.

I'm currently like minded. The only thing I can think of that Unique helps is set-up time. Something like Elrditch Horror can take a bit to set up and get everything ready. Outside of that.. "It's a single box experience" which I guess is a neat idea, I'm just struggling to get on board.

I’m not understanding how completions are turned off by a type of game that by design cannot be “completed.” It’s not like there are chase component or foils or the equivalent. Nobody is buying “parts” of the game...

This feels a lot like 504 to me: we're doing it because we can. It's a proof of concept.

Now let's just hope this ends up playing a lot more interestingly than 504.

9 minutes ago, KalEl814 said:

I’m not understanding how completions are turned off by a type of game that by design cannot be “completed.” It’s not like there are chase component or foils or the equivalent. Nobody is buying “parts” of the game...

It's actually quite simple. We like to own all the components of a printed game. This design seemingly makes that 'very difficult' and thus a turn off.

2 hours ago, ElderKoala said:

It's actually quite simple. We like to own all the components of a printed game. This design seemingly makes that 'very difficult' and thus a turn off.

It’s not made “very difficult” it’s made impossible.

As someone who is completionist-adjacent from time to time, I get that it can chafe when there’s content out that is hard to get, OOP, limited run, etc. But this isn’t designed to be hard to “complete,” there’s just no “complete” state at all. It doesn’t inspire the chase for me knowing it’s impossible to do so by design.

Yeah, I keep hearing the completionist argument about this and KeyForge and unless this is the board game equivalent of Highlander where you have to hand over your copy when you lose and someone eventually beats everybody, NO ONE is ever getting a complete collection of either game. Why that's somehow a bug is beyond me.

FFG has said these are not collectible games, and yet people are criticizing them for not being easily collectible. They also don't clean my windows, but you don't hear my complaining they're not Windex.

This is a hard pass for me. If the cost is a problem to print different tiles and components, then simply release expansions with the components. The argument that every game is a new experience is also easy to achieve by either having a system in the rule book or an app that can generate it for you.

I also do not get the completionist argument. That is not my problem.

This actually reminds me of computer games that I never play. Ones that have randomly generated content. Some randomness is not a problem of course, but most of it should be handcrafted and it should have a partly linear story that can be changed a bit.

So as I avoid these kind of computer games, I'll avoid this as well.

Regardless of that, I simply don't get what the point of this is with coop games. Release a lot of small expansions if you want to, everyone will be OK with that.

Or, release a lot of small expansions and have people complain about FFG gouging them for money every couple of months.

Are people really this resistant to new ideas?

Just now, DailyRich said:

Or, release a lot of small expansions and have people complain about FFG gouging them for money every couple of months.

Are people really this resistant to new ideas?

Miami Vice and Murphy Brown are back on TV this fall.

1 minute ago, DailyRich said:

Or, release a lot of small expansions and have people complain about FFG gouging them for money every couple of months.

Are people really this resistant to new ideas?

They are. They also don't approve of board games being published that are not explicitly for them.

3 minutes ago, ElderKoala said:

Miami Vice and Murphy Brown are back on TV this fall.

Wait, they're bringing back Murphy Brown? Like, from a new angle, or a reimagining? Because wasn't the premise of that show "a woman, in the working world, who doesn't need a man to define her"? Hasn't that become the statuesque for female characters, and your show/movie/book is criticized for being misogynistic if any of its female characters aren't that?

"Keyforge? Loot Boxes!!! Randomness!!! Cash Grab!!!"
-> FFG has several LCGs without any randomness on the market as alternatives.

"Discover: Lands Unknown? I have to buy dozens of boxes to collect every single component!!! Why can't they just release expansions?!?!?!"
-> Okay, that's a tough one. I don't know if there are any FFG games that have lots and lots of expansions to collect. They really should look into that....

I would like to know how big the pool of components is, and I'm also interested to see a comparison of several copies. If it turns out that all of this is just a gimmick and could indeed have easily been done with expansions: yeah, shame on FFG. But at least I can sell or gift the game if I don't like it, unlike Legacy games.

I'm quite intrigued by the idea to have a game that is just my own, and my fellow players and me are the only ones who can ever discover what it is in this exact copy. It's just the theme that I don't like that much. Maybe I'll get a copy, maybe not, I will have another look at this game when it's out.

I hope that it will be a success, though. I'd love to get a Sci-Fi Unique Game about space exploration! Or Zombie Apocalypse!

I am in, i have grown past needing everything for all my games and am happy to play base games now.

i look at this as my friend and i can both book seperate holidays to the same destination and when we return discuss our adventures.

4 minutes ago, Decaramas said:

I am in, i have grown past needing everything for all my games and am happy to play base games now.

i look at this as my friend and i can both book seperate holidays to the same destination and when we return discuss our adventures.

I wish I could say the same but I still want a complete version of nearly everything I buy. I'm still buying every expansion for Smash Up that gets released and I haven't played the game in over 2 years.

This game sounds interesting but I wish they had a different distribution method. I'd be all over it if this was a complete package that had built in mechanics for randomization. And I'd gladly buy expansions for it if its good. As it stands, $60 is a lot of money to spend on a game that you don't know for sure what you are getting.

I'm just burned out on the randomization factor for a lot of games. KeyForge is one of the few random games that I have some interest in. That's mostly due to the fact that you can't swap out cards. Someone spending a small fortune on cards to net deck isn't a problem.

32 minutes ago, TechnoGolem said:

I wish I could say the same but I still want a complete version of nearly everything I buy. I'm still buying every expansion for Smash Up that gets released and I haven't played the game in over 2 years.

This game sounds interesting but I wish they had a different distribution method. I'd be all over it if this was a complete package that had built in mechanics for randomization. And I'd gladly buy expansions for it if its good. As it stands, $60 is a lot of money to spend on a game that you don't know for sure what you are getting.

I'm just burned out on the randomization factor for a lot of games. KeyForge is one of the few random games that I have some interest in. That's mostly due to the fact that you can't swap out cards. Someone spending a small fortune on cards to net deck isn't a problem.

Lol, i recently added the latest expansion to the Smash up big box and came to the same realisation, i havent played in years.

That was part of the reason for focusing my collection, when you have exceeded 500 games its time to take stock.

my friends and i often buy the same games, this will allow us to still do that but have different experiences when we play each other copy.

3 hours ago, kmanweiss said:

Most boardgamers I know are completionists. They buy expansions for games even if they don't play it often. Heck, I know some people that won't even touch a kickstarter game (after the campaign) that had exclusive bonuses for supporters because they know they won't have those exclusives and will feel like somehow their game is less than perfect. While this unique concept might work in a card game like Keyforge, and it might work as a casual game sold on a shelf at Target, It just feels like it's aimed at the wrong people in this case.   

Or this is just what they need to kick that completionist habit! I am of course speaking as a completionist myself.......

Keyforge is odd, but I have an understanding of where they are going because you literally take your deck of randomness and play it against someone else’s deck of randomness. You figure out your deck of random is no good? You drop $10 more and try again. $10 is well placed on the expense curve as something that doesn’t feel like “too much”, but is substantial enough that I’m sure FFG is pleased with the return.

But this... this gets into realllllllly weird territory, and I suspect this won’t go nearly as well as the unique card game is set to do.

For one, you are buying an individual experience. You aren’t pitting your randomness against someone else’s, which is what keyforge brings to the table. You are just... playing... randomness without recognizing why its random?

I guess I just fail to see what the benefit of the game being random really is, unless there are a trillion different characters, landscapes, and agendas. If you buy into the idea and pick up a second copy, and it turns out that you just have a different “mixture” of tiles, 4 of the pool of 10 total characters, and one of the 4 different landscapes, this seems destined to fall on its face hard.

It seems to me this idea would almost necessitate "booster packs". They're really playing up the sense of discovery and the unknown with the random contents, but after you play it several times, that sense of discovery will obviously start to diminish. Hence, random packs of explorers, scenarios, and threats seem like an obvious inclusion...

I still don't "get" the concept of using the 'Unique' element in a game like this (I mean, has anyone ever sat down to play a game of Eldritch Horror or Zombicide or Gloomhaven and thought "boy, I wish my copy wasn't the same as everyone else's"?), and am not sure if I'm interested or not, but I guess I can at least see some potential.

12 minutes ago, KBlumhardt said:

It seems to me this idea would almost necessitate "booster packs". They're really playing up the sense of discovery and the unknown with the random contents, but after you play it several times, that sense of discovery will obviously start to diminish. Hence, random packs of explorers, scenarios, and threats seem like an obvious inclusion...

I still don't "get" the concept of using the 'Unique' element in a game like this, and am not sure if I'm interested or not, but I guess I can at least see some potential.

You could trade games with other players. I think that would be the better solution to this problem than booster packs, but I guess they could also go the route of unique booster packs. That said if each box really feels truly unique then just trading your copy with someone else should give you a whole new experience.

Completionists will obviously hate this whole concept of Unique Games. Though this concept is clearly not targeting them so I don't think FFG cares. There was a market for Legacy games so I think there will definitely be a market for this sort of thing. I could see a future where people meet up at cons to trade copies of Discover: Lands Unknown to get a new experience with the game. Yeah you could just make a giant coffin box and fill it with components to makes this game infinitely replayable, but FFG's already been there and done that. Also nothing about that would make the game feel distinctly yours (akin to how legacy games feel unique to your group). I think I like the legacy concept more than this, but I do think this is an interesting idea to push the boundaries of what is possible and acceptable in a board game.

Again, I have no issue with Keyforge. Not my cup of tea, but I get it. Discover isn't a competitive card game however, and the price point is much higher. Discover is a board game, and it just seems odd to only purchase part of the experience available to you.

It would be like if you bought a video game, and only some of the classes, weapons, quests, characters were available to you. Someone else posts about a fun mission they did and the cool reward they got, only for you to find out that the developers intentionally left that out of your copy. Since this game is randomized each time you play, there is no reason to restrict content in such on odd way.

The more I think about it, the more it looks like a marketing gimmick. Keyforge is being released with this new unique gimmick, we know it's going to get some flak, so we need another title to add to this unique category of games. Well, we have this survival game in development, lets just force this gimmick upon this new game for no reason just to defend using the gimmick on a card game.

6 hours ago, PinnacleOfJimbo said:

I mean, the same thing could be accomplished with a game that simply has all the components in one box, with instructions for how to randomly choose them for each game.

I guess this does that for you, but it also means that you have to buy multiple copies to get that experienc e .

*bingo*!