On 8/10/2018 at 4:33 AM, Magnus Grendel said:Interesting that the Scorpion see Kachiko as compromised by Hotaru , rather than the other way around.
Bear in mind this is Hametsu, who historically always hated Kachiko. He's looking for the worst in her.
OTOH, that he cares like this implies he's not Ninja-Shadow-touched.
1 hour ago, SirEuain said:Bear in mind this is Hametsu, who historically always hated Kachiko. He's looking for the worst in her.
OTOH, that he cares like this implies he's not Ninja-Shadow-touched.
Perhaps not himself, although he's definitely connected given the fact that in "Dreams of Shadow" Hametsu is named as the one giving direct orders to Sadako.
One thing I've just noticed, and liked alot, was how much they toned down the testimony not evidence thing, instead focusing on notions of social and political harmony and confession (even if they elided the use of torture). The Seppun mentioning issues of conflicting testimony and analysing evidence was a really nice touch.
Kudos on that, as it was one of the most annoying rokuganisms without any basis on the inspiration sources.
Something else that occurred to me. It reads like the 'kolat' messed up. They thought that Satsume was sympathetic to their cause and approached him. Turns out he wasn't, and they go with the '!£$%, now we have to kill him' reaction, which really isn't the best possible course of action.
2 hours ago, Tonbo Karasu said:Something else that occurred to me. It reads like the 'kolat' messed up. They thought that Satsume was sympathetic to their cause and approached him. Turns out he wasn't, and they go with the '!£$%, now we have to kill him' reaction, which really isn't the best possible course of action.
what was the best possible course of action?
1 hour ago, mirrorcat said:what was the best possible course of action?
Not approaching him in the first place.
1 hour ago, Tonbo Karasu said:Not approaching him in the first place.
Can you really blame them though? that's the face of a man with untapped Kolat potential
6 hours ago, Tonbo Karasu said:Something else that occurred to me. It reads like the 'kolat' messed up. They thought that Satsume was sympathetic to their cause and approached him. Turns out he wasn't, and they go with the '!£$%, now we have to kill him' reaction, which really isn't the best possible course of action.
I think the Kolat saw an opportunity to convert a VIP to their cause (presumably Satsume was already showing signs of being dissatisfied with the Emperor/Heirs/Imperial Court/his tea/your dishonorable cow), and things were going well until Satsume stumbled on whatever would allow him to preserve the integrity of the Empire while sidestepping the two heirs. Since this obviously wouldn't fit the Kolats plan, and the Kolat presumably couldn't convince him to see things their way, they decided that he had to be silenced, since they'd revealed themselves to him. Not silencing him might have compromised whoever was trying to convert him being another plausible cause.
2 hours ago, Tonbo Karasu said:Not approaching him in the first place.
Well, by that logic, you'll never convert anyone to the cause if you're afraid even trying will screw you over completely. The Kolat took a gamble, it didn't work; clean up any damning evidence and wait out the investigation.
Edited by MangodThe other big question - who is "My Friend And Peer"?
Because it's someone that Satsume was writing to expressing pretty frankly dismissive opinions -arguably treasonous opinions - of the imperial heirs.
If 'his plan' was the abdication and regency, it implies either the emperor (but would he really have called him ' my peer ', especially since we're told the emperor can't read letters directly himself, so someone would be reading it to him?), or whoever put the regency idea in the emperor's head - which means maybe Kachiko or Shoju. Or one of the other imperial champions?
4 hours ago, mirrorcat said:Can you really blame them though? that's the face of a man with untapped Kolat potential
... That's Kakita Yoshi.
But boy would it be hilarious if they tried to recruit this guy by confusing him with Yoshi:
32 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:The other big question - who is "My Friend And Peer"?
Because it's someone that Satsume was writing to expressing pretty frankly dismissive opinions -arguably treasonous opinions - of the imperial heirs.
If 'his plan' was the abdication and regency, it implies either the emperor (but would he really have called him ' my peer ', especially since we're told the emperor can't read letters directly himself, so someone would be reading it to him?), or whoever put the regency idea in the emperor's head - which means maybe Kachiko or Shoju. Or one of the other imperial champions?
No it wouldn't be the Emperor. And I doubt he would consider Kachiko a peer.
I can see a couple of options beyond Shoju, but I feel one would be too obvious considering the old canon, and the other could potentially be the Seppun and/or Otomo Daimyo.
10 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:The other big question - who is "My Friend And Peer"?
Because it's someone that Satsume was writing to expressing pretty frankly dismissive opinions -arguably treasonous opinions - of the imperial heirs.
" Dear Fu Leng,
These bunch of incompetent buffoons are unworthy of the imperial throne.
please hasten your return so that Rokugan may be blessed with a proper regent.
i'd also like to remind you that i have a cute daughter whose training i personally supervised in order to meet the minimal requirements to stand beside a man of your stature.
your BFF,
Doji Satsume"
----------
@Suzume Chikahisa whoops,iwas enthranced by the evil grin and failed to realize it, thx for pointing it out
Edited by mirrorcat
24 minutes ago, mirrorcat said:" Dear Fu Leng,
These bunch of incompetent buffoons are unworthy of the imperial throne.
please hasten your return so that Rokugan may be blessed with a proper regent.
i'd also like to remind you that i have a cute daughter whose training i personally supervised in order to meet the minimal requirements to stand beside a man of your stature.
your BFF,
Doji Satsume"
----------
@Suzume Chikahisa whoops,iwas enthranced by the evil grin and failed to realize it, thx for pointing it out
So much win mere likes do not make it justice (I don’t even know why I enjoy it so much).
Also, you probably just made Ishi Tonu quite happy.
15 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:The other big question - who is "My Friend And Peer"?
Because it's someone that Satsume was writing to expressing pretty frankly dismissive opinions -arguably treasonous opinions - of the imperial heirs.
If 'his plan' was the abdication and regency, it implies either the emperor (but would he really have called him ' my peer ', especially since we're told the emperor can't read letters directly himself, so someone would be reading it to him?), or whoever put the regency idea in the emperor's head - which means maybe Kachiko or Shoju. Or one of the other imperial champions?
My thoughts went directly to the Emperor myself. In the old lore Doji Satsume was a close friend of Hantei as they both trained together in the Kakita Duelling Academy. From the 'A Tiger Stalks His Prey' story Hantei attempts to draw out similar frank opinions from Toturi as seem to have been drawn from Satsume. This theory may fall short with the correspondent's upset reaction when Satsume suggests he has solution. Am I deep into crazy pill territory when I suggest the 'Tiger Stalking his Prey' may be Hantei himself as Master Tiger head of the Kolat! :O
21 minutes ago, Bazleebub said:My thoughts went directly to the Emperor myself. In the old lore Doji Satsume was a close friend of Hantei as they both trained together in the Kakita Duelling Academy. From the 'A Tiger Stalks His Prey' story Hantei attempts to draw out similar frank opinions from Toturi as seem to have been drawn from Satsume. This theory may fall short with the correspondent's upset reaction when Satsume suggests he has solution. Am I deep into crazy pill territory when I suggest the 'Tiger Stalking his Prey' may be Hantei himself as Master Tiger head of the Kolat! :O
I don't object to Satsume thinking of the emperor as a friend, or even conspiring with the Emperor to bring about the Regency (I'm not sure if you can 'conspire' with the supreme authority of the empire) , but I have two real issues with this:
19 hours ago, Suzume Chikahisa said:... That's Kakita Yoshi.
But boy would it be hilarious if they tried to recruit this guy by confusing him with Yoshi:
Yup, that's him, ol' Grinner.
His friend and peer might be Kisada...
Well, 'peer' cuts it way down when dealing with Satsume. His only peers would really only be other Imperial Champions or family daimyo. The correspondences are from Otosan Uchi, so it's less likely to be a Clan Champion who only happens to write letters encouraging subversion while in the Capital, but not from home. On the other hand, if you're going to communicate with someone from a Clan that should be your enemy, doing so from Otosan Uchi might make sense.
My money's on Miya Satoshi. Close enough to the Throne to have an unfiltered look at the Hantei, self-important enough to want more than he has, arrogant enough to think that he can wring power & advantage out of the inevitable chaos.
4 hours ago, Doji Hyōkin said:Well, 'peer' cuts it way down when dealing with Satsume. His only peers would really only be other Imperial Champions or family daimyo. The correspondences are from Otosan Uchi, so it's less likely to be a Clan Champion who only happens to write letters encouraging subversion while in the Capital, but not from home. On the other hand, if you're going to communicate with someone from a Clan that should be your enemy, doing so from Otosan Uchi might make sense.
My money's on Miya Satoshi. Close enough to the Throne to have an unfiltered look at the Hantei, self-important enough to want more than he has, arrogant enough to think that he can wring power & advantage out of the inevitable chaos.
He could have been changed but Satoshi still reads as the guy that absolutely loathes the Crane. And Satsume definetely still reads as the guy that considered few as in any way peers.
On 8/13/2018 at 12:27 PM, Tonbo Karasu said:Yup, that's him, ol' Grinner.
His friend and peer might be Kisada...
Kisada didn't countenance a secret one-off alliance from Shoju in old L5R. I don't know he'd have patience for flowery writing and ongoing conspiracy.
On 8/13/2018 at 4:55 PM, Doji Hyōkin said:Well, 'peer' cuts it way down when dealing with Satsume. His only peers would really only be other Imperial Champions or family daimyo. The correspondences are from Otosan Uchi, so it's less likely to be a Clan Champion who only happens to write letters encouraging subversion while in the Capital, but not from home. On the other hand, if you're going to communicate with someone from a Clan that should be your enemy, doing so from Otosan Uchi might make sense.
My money's on Miya Satoshi. Close enough to the Throne to have an unfiltered look at the Hantei, self-important enough to want more than he has, arrogant enough to think that he can wring power & advantage out of the inevitable chaos.
The other option could be Ujimitsu (who was still Phoenix Champion while Satsume was alive and also died under mysterious/unexpected circumstances). Maybe he was a more devoted follower of the Path of Man than originally suspected?
I’ve come around to it being Kakita Yoshi. Long time friend of Satsume’s in the Crane. As Imperial Chancellor counts as a peer, and is secretly working to overthrow the Imperial families so that descendants of Kakita, greatest mortal at the Dawn of the Empire, can rule as they clearly deserve to.
14 minutes ago, Doji Hyōkin said:I’ve come around to it being Kakita Yoshi. Long time friend of Satsume’s in the Crane. As Imperial Chancellor counts as a peer, and is secretly working to overthrow the Imperial families so that descendants of Kakita, greatest mortal at the Dawn of the Empire, can rule as they clearly deserve to.
It would make his apparent foolishness make a little more sense, but I don't see it personally
1 hour ago, Schmoozies said:The other option could be Ujimitsu (who was still Phoenix Champion while Satsume was alive and also died under mysterious/unexpected circumstances). Maybe he was a more devoted follower of the Path of Man than originally suspected?
Ujimitsu's about as far away from being Kolat material as possible, pretty much inherently. While the whole kneeling to Isawa thing might make the Kolat like Shiba Kami more than the rest of his kin, at the end of the day Ujimitsu's still got a god in his noggin. I don't know the Kolat would trust him with something this big.
27 minutes ago, Doji Hyōkin said:I’ve come around to it being Kakita Yoshi. Long time friend of Satsume’s in the Crane. As Imperial Chancellor counts as a peer, and is secretly working to overthrow the Imperial families so that descendants of Kakita, greatest mortal at the Dawn of the Empire, can rule as they clearly deserve to.
Yoshi'd from OldL5R would need a big personality transplant for this. He may be a jerk now, but I'd be more inclined to think he's Hantei's jerk.
I think we may be overlooking another, more obvious candidate who had some ties to the Kolat in Old L5R, and tried to form an alliance with them around this time in the story: Bayushi Kachiko.
4 minutes ago, SirEuain said:Ujimitsu's about as far away from being Kolat material as possible, pretty much inherently. While the whole kneeling to Isawa thing might make the Kolat like Shiba Kami more than the rest of his kin, at the end of the day Ujimitsu's still got a god in his noggin. I don't know the Kolat would trust him with something this big.
Depends Shiba may be able to recognize how far the Empire has fallen from the ideal that the Kami originally represented and may have come to realize that the hand on the tiller is no longer the one your want in control. Plus while the hosts have the knowledge and experience of the previous champions they aren't controlled by them so it could be Shiba there screaming in his head about everything he's doing wrong while he feels that he needed to do something to course correct the Empire. And with the loss of Ujimitsu from the collective after the event so of the Phoenix Novella it would also go to explain why Tsukune may not be aware of everything he was up to.
I'll just remind people of the Gozoku. Maybe that is what Satsume was thinking about. It was run by the Crane, Phoenix and Scorpion, IIRC.