Hello all, posting this up in a couple of places so I can get as wide a range of opinions as possible?

Have a question about GENESYS vehicle rules, just want to make sure I’m doing it right.

The scenario is from the Takeover At Whisper Bass from the Age of Rebellion Beginner box, specifically the chase at the end, where the AT-ST is fleeing to the Comms Tower. At the beginning of the encounter, the AT-ST is at Extreme range from its destination and the players (presumably on speeder bikes) are behind it at Medium range. It’s not stated in the scenario but I’m assuming both sides begin at maximum speed (AT-ST speed 2, bikes speed 3). (There’s also a minion group of scout troopers on bikes but I’m leaving them out for the moment while I sort this through.)

Now, since this is a game I’m running for my kids (ages 7 - 10) and my wife (limited RPG experience) the KISS principle takes precedence. I’m using the GENESYS Core rulebook with Star Wars RPG content (species, careers (no specializations), adversaries, vehicles, equipment) for now.

So (finally), the question is - can vehicles take an extra move maneuver (or two) in addition to the forced move based on speed they must take each round? When I wargamed the scenario (using a single speeder vs the AT-ST) to try and get a grasp of how it works, the PC got the initiative - PC uses a decelerate maneuver to drop to speed 2 in order to not overshoot the AT-ST (Medium->Short->Engaged/Close), executes the forced move to close the distance, and then uses an action to make a Gunnery check to take a shot. On the AT-ST’s turn, it’s fleeing at speed 2 to its destination - so it’s forced move will take it to Medium range away from the bikes and to (I believe) Medium range from the Comms Tower (Extreme->Long->Medium). From where I sit, the AT-ST has two maneuvers available still - can it use those remaining maneuvers to close the distance to the tower (Medium->Short->Engaged/Close) and open the gap on the speeders (Medium->Long)? I haven’t seen anything saying this isn’t permitted, and I’ve had a good read of the vehicle rules a couple of times now.

Hope I’m not confusing anyone, I’m a bit confused myself ? . I’m sure I’ll be back with more when we get to starfighter combat!

20 minutes ago, tafattel said:

So (finally), the question is - can vehicles take an extra move maneuver (or two) in addition to the forced move based on speed they must take each round  ?

Yes. Pilots can perform one manoeuvre for free each turn and can suffer 2 strain (and the vehicle suffers 2 system strain) to perform a second manoeuvre (see page 226).

4 minutes ago, c__beck said:

Yes. Pilots can perform one manoeuvre for free each turn and can suffer 2 strain (and the vehicle suffers 2 system strain) to perform a second manoeuvre (see page 226).

Cool! I did see that on pg 226 but wasn’t sure if extra movement on top of the forced movement was allowed.

1 minute ago, tafattel said:

Cool! I did see that on pg 226 but wasn’t sure if extra movement on top of the forced movement was allowed.

It is not only allowed but intended! Forced movement is just the way Genesys handles velocity. The reposition manoeuvre is a conscious effort on behalf of the pilot to keep the vehicle moving.

1 minute ago, c__beck said:

It is not only allowed but intended! Forced movement is just the way Genesys handles velocity. The reposition manoeuvre is a conscious effort on behalf of the pilot to keep the vehicle moving.

Excellent! Now it becomes clear, thank you sir!

Another question ?

So if the PCs grab the bikes and they’re chasing the AT-ST through the dense jungle, are they making Piloting checks each round to keep from smashing into trees? If so, they won’t be able to engage the walker with a Gunnery check, will they?

I’ve definitely confused myself again ?

Dense jungle would be considered impassible terrain (CRB110). This means that, in order to use manoeuvres to move, the character must make a skill check—Dangerous Driving, in this case.

If they don’t take the dangerous Driving action (and thus give up their ability to shoot) they still move due to the Forced Movement rule, but won’t move any closer. It’s a trade-off between running and fighting.

of course, of the passenger has some anti-armour weapons they can till shoot while the pilot concentrates on driving!

Sorry for resurrecting this but I'm unsure how to read this in the Genesys Rulebook.

1.:
Does moving normally (without Dangerous Driving) require a Maneuver or is it an incidental?

I was interpreting it like this:
When the Pilot / Driver does not use a Maneuver to steer the Vehicle moves due to Force Movement but undirected and possibly crashing into something.

2.:
In for example a Dogfight in Star Wars, does that mean that Pilots have to choose between Dangerous Driving and Shooting?
Which would make Dogfights rather silly because the Choice in anything but empty space would be to Shoot or to Crash.

Can someone clarify / clear this up for me?
I've read the section of the Genesys Rulebook again and again but I'm getting more and more confused about this.

1. No. With Forced Movement, it occurs at either the start or end of your turn. However you can take the Pilot Only ”Reposition” maneuver to move one range band, within Short range or move to engaged range. You can do a second ”Reposition”, but since it's a pilot only maneuver, the ship takes 2 System Strain. Unlike Star Wars, you still move based on your velocity. So consider it something you just do rather than categorizing them into Action/Maneuver/Incidental.

If you need to use Dangerous Driving, it's an action. If you don't spend the action, you still move but you force a collision with what you're driving through.

2. You are correct. Fire or crash. Look at the asteroid field chase in TESB. The TIEs don't start firing until they are clear of the belt and are closer to a larger asteroid. Even the Falcon doesn't shoot back.

In AOTC, we don't know what sort of computer system Slave 1 has. It could have droid brain leaving Jango to do the firing.

Also, I can recommend listening to two of our shows on The Forge: A Genesys RPG Podcast about it, and @c__beck did a show on it as well:

EPISODE 15 - Starting Your Engines #1: The First Avengine

EPISODE `17 - Starting Your Engines #2: Cruise Control

Excess Advantage: Episode 301

Excess Advantage: Episode 302

Thanks alot for the clarification.

And I'll definitely take a listen 😄

One thing corssed my mind though regarding Dangerous Driving: How would Fleet Battles work (example being the opening scenes of Episode 3) or be not silly? 🤔
Such a battlefield doesn't strike me as much different from an Asteroid Field and would probably lead to a large dodge battle with no-one except maybe capital ships firing Oo

Edit / Followup:

Another question came to mind:
Can a Ship stay in one Rangeband while still at say Speed 5 ?

In a Dogfight Example he'd be flying turns etc ?

If not, that would bring me to: What would a Pilot need to do, to stay in a Dogfight (a specific Rangeband to a target) ?

Ok so lets look the opening of Episode III:

GM: <Reads opening crawl> The startfield above Coruscant is filled with battleships of the Republic and the Separatist forces. Depris fills to your viewshield. You have a squad of Clone ARC fighters covering your flank. There are several squadrons of fighters flying around the melee. You set you course into the heart of the battle as you spy General Grevious’ ship far off in the distance. You think the Supreme Chancellor is his prisoner, and it's likely a good place to start your search. What do you do?

ANI: I head towards the ship at max speed! <Spends some System strain for the Accelerate Maneuver and as an action makes a Dangerous Driving check. He succeeds with some Threat.>

GM: So you blast forward and rip through the debris. Unfortunately, you Clone Fighter Squadron have picked up some ”friends” - two sqadrons of Droid Trifighters!

ANI: I should have stayed with them!

OBI: They have a job to do, Anakin. I guess I best follow you. <Copies Anakin and succeeds and rolls a Despair>

ANI: I have a bad feeling about this!

GM: You made it through as well and the Clones are right behind. Suddenly you hear and see blaster fire from behind you and then screams through the onboard comlink as the Droid Trifighters obliterate the ARCs, and start heading in your direction.

So now we have a dog fight against the Tri fighters. Perhaps they fire their missiles, miss with some Advantage, but also a Triumph. They decide that the debris clears for a moment allowing the squadron to break away using the Advantage and activate the Guided quality for the Buzz Droid missiles.

So now the PCs are going to have to deal with difficult terrain and the buzz droids.

The large ships are background colour. You could use the Mass Combat Rules to determine the larger battle to explain what's going on round by round (at the end of each round even, mainly so the players are involved as well).

The other thing to consider is that the Jedi fighters had R2 units which can perform a lot of good things for the pilot - see Stay on Target has some great rules for that. Otherwise they are just a co-pilot so look what they can do re dangerous driving.

Keep in mind that Dangerous Driving is only when the pilot " performs an improbable feat of operating prowess. " So with a capital battle in the background there's no check needed.

Due to the way that other games handle Piloting checks most people assume they're needed all the time. But they're not. Flying near a capital ship isn't enough. But flying around a capital ship while dodging enemy fire? Sure, make a check, otherwise you might crash.

And I think that's the litmus test: is there a real chance of colliding with something? If yes, Dangerous Driving.

The full first sentence of Dangerous Driving states:

" The pilot attempts to control the vehicle as it takes a sharp turn, tries to coax the vehicle through a series of narrowly placed obstacles, or otherwise performs an improbable feat of operating prowess. "

Even the whole thing describes "outside the norm". So @c__beck is 100% correct.

Things like <DR> and the flip of a GM Story/Destiny Point can force that circumstance, but so can the narrative as well. Remember though, if you flip a Story/Destiny Point a lot, your players will get sick of you real fast. Its a case of ONLY if the situation warrants it and if its dramatically appropriate. Second, if you flip it, don't think you can upgrade it as well. Its to create the situation to force a roll, not upgrade it too.

This is purely in the realm of opinion and interpretation, but one of the things I've done during Dangerous Driving situations is allow a Triumph on the DD check to grant the pilot a shot at the enemy in the same turn. I apply any terrain setbacks for the DD check to the combat check as well. So using an asteroid field as an example, they have to take the Dangerous Driving action in order to move through it and perhaps the asteroid field imposes 2 setback dice on the Piloting check. The player rolls a Triumph on the DD check and gets a free shot at the enemy at whatever range they currently are from each other (they can not spend a maneuver to get closer or aim at this point- the shot must be taken immediately) and the 2 Setback from the asteroid field are applied to the difficulty of the shot (asteroids are getting in the way or they're having to pull off-target to avoid them, etc.).

Players love it when this happens

Yeah I’d allow that!

Worked with this now a bunch of times and I really like it.

Thanks for the feedback