After Reading Rules

By jogo, in KeyForge

So who did read the rules and what are your initial thoughts?

The main surprising point for me was, that you always draw up to 6 (minus chains). With free discards we will likely see a lot of our deck. Maybe even multiple runs through, which could allow for some nice interactions with the purge keyword.

I've read the rules completely too. What I feel would throw off most card game veterans is that the Stand and Draw is at the END of the turn, instead of at the start.

Besides the distribution model that baffles me, the game itself is interesting. It's highly relying in what cards you get, but the decision points ( how to use creatures, what cards to discard, what hose to use each turn) and the structure of the turn are interesting. The major plus it that the cards have no cost. Getting rid of any resource mechanic other than just simply the cards you have in hand and be able to keep it hopefully somehow not completely imbalanced is nice.

This game has rules? :D

We'll get to that bit eventually. Still trying to work out that unique deck thing.

38 minutes ago, RedMageStatscowski said:

I've read the rules completely too. What I feel would throw off most card game veterans is that the Stand and Draw is at the END of the turn, instead of at the start.

Draw at the end of turn, multifaction decks, that box art...

THis game is starting to look more and more like Smash up.

kf01-02_boxes.png

Afbeeldingsresultaat voor smash up

There's quickstart rules and main rulebook. Both are available as PDFs already.

After reading the rules i am very interested in the game. I always liked tinkering with my Magic Deck but i think i had my fair share of that and just want to play at this point and not bother chasing the cards i need to complete a deck.

The rules seem very simple and streamlined. They don't feel overstreamlined tho. The handicap system sounds nice when playing with know decks.

Now i just hope that the decks i get from my Starter Set are not complete garbage or too different in powerlevel but got some interesting synergies.

I think starting with just one Starter sounds pretty good. Will give you a good idea how the game feels and to check if the game is for you.

The whole concept of the game feels like Sealed Deck from Magic the gathering. A format i always liked but was rather expansive. Sealed Tournaments were always around 25 € depending on price support. This is much more bareable.

I hope at least one shop in my area will develop a small community that would be interested in playingw ith new decks every once in a while.

I just recently noticed how much i miss playing Magic but it just got too expensive to play at this point. So this might be the solution. I really hope it is.

If I want to play magic at the moment I just proxy stuff.

I am wondering about interactions in an opponents turn though. Did I just miss them or is it like hearthstone?

My impression of the quick start rules plus the examples of the cards they provided is positive. I love the fact that you are not limited by mana costs in terms of what you can play, but instead, are limited to what you can play by what house you choose to activate that turn. I think this little mechanic is what is pivotal to making this game work. Sure, you may get several powerful creatures in play over the course of a few turns, but those will likely be from different houses, meaning that you won't be able to activate all of those creatures every turn.

Also, while killing creaturs is nice, it is not really the focus of the game. For example, in Magic and L5R, you are trying to beat your way past enemies to "damage" the other player (either directly or through attacking provinces). But in this game, it is all about that sweet, sweet, amber. While one or two of the example cards have a Fight: receive x amber ability or, destroy the creature and receive x amber, this doesn't appear to be a central means for gaining amber. Healing Wave, for example, heals all creatures (including your opponents) and then lets you gain one amber for each creature healed. And several cards give you amber just for playing them. So the impression I have is that you don't want to get distracted by trying to just win fights because that won't get you to the finish line. Instead, each turn, you will need to try to determine the best way to collect amber, which is not necessarily beating up on your opponent's creatures. In other words, it is not your standard "spend resources to deploy attacking/blocking units followed by executing attacks and blocks." This is further emphasized by the fact that attacking happens simultaneously, meaning that attacking will usually hurt your self as well as your opponent.

The Reap Action also creates an interesting dilemma for players. Do you attack with your creatures or reap amber? Attacking means you can reduce your opponent's ability to reap, but you also forgo gaining amber. If you reap, then your opponent can reap as well or go on the offensive and attack you. Deciding when to reap and when to attack or use other action abilities will be pivotal to winning games, I think.

My first impressions are that this game will play fairly different from other card games in that there is no resource management and no real playing to block. Instead, the limitations on what you can play are self-imposed by what house you activate, and if you choose to reap amber or use cards in play (either their action abilities or fighting). The game seems to be heavy on weighing opportunity costs in that every choice you make means giving up on something else. Again, especially regarding attack/action vs. reaping.

With regards to the "every deck is unique" aspect, I think this could be a lot of fun. There is only 300 some cards spread over 7 houses, so we know that each house will have a relatively limited list of cards (for now, it is maybe about 50 cards, I guess). When a person shows up with a random deck, that deck has three specific faction symbols, those symbols will give you a pretty decent idea on what you might be facing for that game. Likewise, if you are playing with a cold deck that you have never used before, the three house symbols will give you a quick idea of what to expect from your deck and how to strategize on the fly, so to speak. This sounds like a style that some will love and others will hate. Many competitive players tend to want to build min/maxed decks to optimize their chances to win. For other players, customizing decks and experimenting with strategies is the heart of the game. Also, those who are collectors will struggle with the idea that you simply can't collect each deck (though you can certainly get each card). On the other hand, those of us who like to be able to just sit down and play without having to look up deck lists online and buy expensive single cards just to remain competitive will enjoy this game more. For example, I myself always wanted to get into a card game and play at events, but I never do because I simply don't have the time, money, or will to build carefully tailored decks. In addition, having to play with non-min/maxed decks is a new form of challenge for competitive play. In one sense, not being able to look online for the latest winning deck and paying to buy the cards for that winning deck makes the game a more competitive challenge. Again, for myself, I never played Magic competitively not because I can't, but because chasing down cards and decklists in order to be competitive is not appealing to me. Also, while I can't be a completionist, the idea of collecting decks, and knowing that probably no one (or very few) people out there will have the same decks that I have, makes my decks kind of special. If I am winning games with one of my decks, no one else can just copy my deck. My deck is my deck, and that is really cool. From a collecting aspect, that has a lot more charm for me than "I randomly got a rare card that other people will also have because they bought it for 10 bucks as a single."

So, I think the unique deck aspect is what will turn people on/off about this game more than the rules. The good news is that you don't have to necessarily only play one type of game. I personally avoid games like Magic because I do not like the card chase, but I do play games like L5R because I enjoy deck building, and LCCs make it easy to have all the cards I need and then leave it up to me to build decks. This game seems to offer a very different experience, one that I am very eager to try out.

5 hours ago, jogo said:

If I want to play magic at the moment I just proxy stuff.

I am wondering about interactions in an opponents turn though. Did I just miss them or is it like hearthstone?

It doesn't look like there is a lot of "out of turn actions/reactions" if that is what you mean (though I don't really know that, it's just my impression from the rules). The closest thing seems to be the fact that attacking is simultaneous, which could cause certain abilities to trigger. Also, if a player calls "check" at the end of their turn, then you know they are going to unlock a key if you don't steal some of their amber. I did see a clarification for what happens if you take control of another player's card, so that will be a thing. Some cards will allow you to chain your opponent, so chains will get used even if you don't opt to use them as a handicap. There is the "hazardous" key word, which means that an attacking creature will take x damage before the attack is resolved. There will also be a way to unforge your opponent's forged keys. But I think that is about it, at least for now.

6 hours ago, jogo said:

If I want to play magic at the moment I just proxy stuff.

I am wondering about interactions in an opponents turn though. Did I just miss them or is it like hearthstone?

This seems very much like Hearthstone in that regard. It feels the game is even more streamlined than Hearthstone.

17 hours ago, Reaver027 said:

This seems very much like Hearthstone in that regard. It feels the game is even more streamlined than Hearthstone.

I get the impression that it’s entirely possible to win in 3 turns if you happen to get the right card mix (thanks to some cards generating aether)

4 hours ago, Derrault said:

I get the impression that it’s entirely possible to win in 3 turns if you happen to get the right card mix (thanks to some cards generating aether)

No, it would have to be turn 4. You forge keys at the start of your turn, do not start with any Æmber , cannot forge more than 1 key per turn and need 3 keys to win.

I was pleased to see that the game was simple enough that templating should not be an issue going forward (looking at you LCGs !)

5 hours ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

No, it would have to be turn 4. You forge keys at the start of your turn, do not start with any Æmber , cannot forge more than 1 key per turn and need 3 keys to win.

Right, sorry I meant with only 3 turns of card use. (Since you wouldn’t actually play any cards on turn 4)

Don't want to spoil, but there may be a way to get keys before start of turn.