10 minutes ago, taylorcowbell said:

So, we have a game that for casuals can be frustrating because you dont know if your deck actually is good or not, and a game thats frustrating for competitive players because they have literally 0 agency. Show up to a toruney, drop 10$ on a deck.... and it sucks. awesome. I can try and win with it and feel awesome about winning, but i was given a handicap thanks to RNG?

I am definitely not the target market, but I dont really understand who is. And I like the artwork and card style, but something like this just doesnt make sense to me.

So you go to a tournament with and unknown deck that might not even be good...

I went into a tournament where everyone were given a number of booster packs, and the contents become your deck, no matter what they are. I only opened ONE grade 3 card, yet I still won a good number of my games. Don't blame the deck, blame the player.

4 minutes ago, Robin Graves said:

If you have deck made out of only cards from the starter set, and I roll up with tricked out deck with cards from across half a dozen expansions then you might struggle.

Sure, but there you are not comparing two decks that are presented as "equal" (and also one person is a real jerk, given that we are mostly talking about a casual environment).

5 minutes ago, Robin Graves said:

I mean you could go with player with strongest deck has to do 3 whiskey shooters before the game, but that might lead to other problems

I thought that was standard operating procedure in any card game. I'm confused now.

Honestly, this strikes me as a little like the card game equivalent of Pokemon, just with decks instead of monsters. Nobody catches one Pokemon and says, "Okay, I'm all set." You get Pokemons that do heavy damage, or damage of a certain type, or who are tough and can take a pounding. Same with the various decks. You might want one when you want to sling fast damage around, one where you work combos, one that turtles up and wins a slow victory, etc.

I'm not sure how successful this will be, but I'm certainly more interested in this than the latest CCG/LCG where everybody net-decks the same four or five deck types.

2 hours ago, Robin Graves said:

My first impression is: A CCG without trading and deckbuilding . It's very "eat what's being served." (My old school lunch lady would have approved )

But at about 10$ per deck it's great for draft.

FFG should really market it like that:

"Hey kids! Wanna play CCG's but they are to expensive? Well with Keyforge you have a unique playable deck for under ten bucks!"

"Hey kids! Wanna play CCG's but deckbuilding gives you headaches? All our decks can't be altered and come ready to go! Leaving you with more time to play!"

"Hey kids! Wanna play draft format, but opening packs and sorting stuff out takes to long? With Keystone you buy a deck pack and you ready to play!"

"Hey kids! Wanna play CCG's but you don't want to be stuck playing the same deck as everyone else in the stale meta? All our decks are unique!"

True. Now imagine if FFG had made this an actual constructable game, but just where the “boosters” were exactly as they are now. So, instead of buying three boosters, you buy one for 3x the price. And each one is a unique deck that you can use in tournaments and in casual play, but then (with sleeves) you could build your own deck. In other words, the best of both worlds.

for now, I kind of like getting 2-4 decks just to explore the game and see what it’s like. All this speculation is worthless if the game itself isn’t any good. :)

1 minute ago, RedMageStatscowski said:

I went into a tournament where everyone were given a number of booster packs, and the contents become your deck, no matter what they are. I only opened ONE grade 3 card, yet I still won a good number of my games. Don't blame the deck, blame the player.

Sure but nobody here is disputing that.

Higher skill should and will win you games, that's the case for any game and it's all good and fair. BUT, given equal skill, having to be at the mercy of random decks (on top of random draws) seems unappealing to me. Subjective opinion and all that, ofc.

7 minutes ago, Robin Graves said:

So you go to a tournament with and unknown deck that might not even be good...

I wouldn't go to a tournament with a random deck, unless that were the format (which as far as formats go, not the worst idea).

I didn't think much of SW:Destiny either, so I haven't been able to judge how interested in a game I will be before. I'll give it a try. A random tournament ($15 entry I'd wager) could actually be pretty fun.

4 minutes ago, LelloArchangel said:

I thought that was standard operating procedure in any card game. I'm confused now.

You are alowed to substitute different types of alcohol if you don't have whiskey. (Errata: you can only do Margerita shooters if you are also having pizza.)

2 minutes ago, Duciris said:

I wouldn't go to a tournament with a random deck, unless that were the format (which as far as formats go, not the worst idea).

I didn't think much of SW:Destiny either, so I haven't been able to judge how interested in a game I will be before. I'll give it a try. A random tournament ($15 entry I'd wager) could actually be pretty fun.

At least it cheap. For the price of two destiny boosters you get a full deck. Ofcourse you're kinda stuck with it afterward. But it still seems like fun.

13 minutes ago, Robin Graves said:

So you go to a tournament with and unknown deck that might not even be good...

I mean, otherwise im buying deck after deck looking for a good one thats my playstyle before hand, which seems to be defeating the purpose and about as pay-to-win as CCGs?

Quote

Every Archon Dec k contains a full play experience with a deck that cannot be altered, meaning it's ready to play right out of the box. Not only does this remove the need for deckbuilding or boosters, it also creates a new form of gameplay with innovative mechanics that challenges you to use every card in your deck to find the strongest and most cunning combinations.

Quoted from the announcement, I feel people trying to buy until they get what they want is missing the whole point. Or am I missing something here?

13 minutes ago, LelloArchangel said:

Sure but nobody here is disputing that.

Higher skill should and will win you games, that's the case for any game and it's all good and fair. BUT, given equal skill, having to be at the mercy of random decks (on top of random draws) seems unappealing to me. Subjective opinion and all that, ofc.

That makes Backgammon much superior to chess though.

I hate physical deckbuilding but love this kind of card game. Especially without mana flooding it looks great.

1 minute ago, taylorcowbell said:

I mean, otherwise im buying deck after deck looking for a good one thats my playstyle before hand, which seems to be defeating the purpose and about as pay-to-win as CCGs?

If I was FFG, every tournament would be draft only.

Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe buy 2 packs, register and play with one so you have a bit more chance to avoid a dud deck.

But yeah, it's like playing MtG prerelease, you also play with blind bags, but there you can atleast customize your deck. (and you can use the cards in other decks you build later.)

3 minutes ago, RedMageStatscowski said:

Quoted from the announcement, I feel people trying to buy until they get what they want is missing the whole point. Or am I missing something here?

No you are right. Ofcourse it still leaves us with some decks having more strongest and most cunning combinations than others. Now it will be interesting to see if a creatuve player with a weak deck can consistantly win against an uncreative player with a (in theory) better deck.

Quote

It is not the cards themselves that are powerful, but rather the interactions between them—interactions that can only be found in your deck.

Another line from the announcement. An uncreative player wouldn't be able to find as many such interactions.

20 minutes ago, SebastianB said:

True. Now imagine if FFG had made this an actual constructable game, but just where the “boosters” were exactly as they are now. So, instead of buying three boosters, you buy one for 3x the price. And each one is a unique deck that you can use in tournaments and in casual play, but then (with sleeves) you could build your own deck. In other words, the best of both worlds.

for now, I kind of like getting 2-4 decks just to explore the game and see what it’s like. All this speculation is worthless if the game itself isn’t any good.

Whas thinking the same thing. I also play Smash Up, it's a game where you build your deck by combining a set of fixed cards from 2 factions.

I think a very important aspect of the game is that cards have no cost to play. If I have understood correctly, at each round you have to declare the house that you will use for the round and you can play or discard cards as many cards from that house in your hand at no cost.

It seems to me that this way of playing is an essential feature of having proceduraly generated deck. I imagine that you have to read the situation carrefully to select which house to play and to find the best move to pull based on your generated deck on which you had no input at all.

I think this mechanic will give you access to many cards of your deck as they cost no resources to play, which may be a way to replace deck building skill by play skill. It seems to me that it fits very well with the intent that the author described at the end of the rule book. And reading the intent I can see the interrest in such type of game.

8 hours ago, TylerTT said:

Each deck has a unique card back

Woah, seriously? I assumed a checklist-style card or something that listed all the cards in there. A unique back for each deck is kinda nuts. I can't imagine the production logistics on that.

2 minutes ago, wirbowsky said:

I think a very important aspect of the game is that cards have no cost to play. If I have understood correctly, at each round you have to declare the house that you will use for the round and you can play or discard cards as many cards from that house in your hand at no cost.

It seems to me that this way of playing is an essential feature of having proceduraly generated deck. I imagine that you have to read the situation carrefully to select which house to play and to find the best move to pull based on your generated deck on which you had no input at all.

I think this mechanic will give you access to many cards of your deck as they cost no resources to play, which may be a way to replace deck building skill by play skill. It seems to me that it fits very well with the intent that the author described at the end of the rule book. And reading the intent I can see the interrest in such type of game.

Not just playing and discarding cards of the declared house, but also attacking and using abilities must be done with cards of the declared house, unless it's an Omni ability.

Just now, Zetan said:

Woah, seriously? I assumed a checklist-style card or something that listed all the cards in there. A unique back for each deck is kinda nuts. I can't imagine the production logistics on that.

My guess is they will have a few lot of cardbacks and then print them in a variety of colors. Hey it worked for Mortal Kombat!

Just now, RedMageStatscowski said:

Not just playing and discarding cards of the declared house, but also attacking and using abilities must be done with cards of the declared house, unless it's an Omni ability.

I meant playing in a broad sense but indeed not correct sense.

1 hour ago, RedMageStatscowski said:

They did say, if one deck is clearly stronger, to put 4 chains on it. If it still wins 3 more in a row, add another chain. Keep going until it feels even. I feel the chain system isn't to make the stronger deck weaker, rather give the weaker deck more time to prepare a field.

That... makes me really worry about competitive play.

Quote

Are some decks stronger than others? What happens when a deck wins consistently?

Some Archon Decks in KeyForge will naturally be stronger than others, but every deck in KeyForge has value. First of all, every deck represents a chance to explore deeper into the world of the Crucible, potentially uncovering cards and combos that you never knew existed or have never played with before. Furthermore, just like any card game, some decks are better in certain matchups, and choosing the decks you’ll play is an important strategic element. And even if you and your opponent have decks that are less than optimal, it can be just as fun to swap decks and see what your opponent can do with your deck!

If a deck wins too often in an Organized Play framework, there are processes in place to handicap and eventually retire that deck. For more information on this, keep watching our Organized Play articles and announcements for KeyForge !

Quoted from the FAQ.

33 minutes ago, Robin Graves said:

You are alowed to substitute different types of alcohol if you don't have whiskey. (Errata: you can only do Margerita shooters if you are also having pizza.)

Margarita shooters and pizza sound like an OP combo.

Is there some FFG tournament software they plan to add deck registration to? Never did official organized play.