3 minutes ago, kac said:

I agree with your point. One would think it would have some good use against the double ST lists that you see from time to time.

Double ATST list has veers to provide it with aims and an initial alpha strike with sharpshooter1 and probably an aim.
It gets shredded even in that scenario.

And even without veers, it's more or less down to dice: If the T-47 doesn't kill the AT-ST in two turns (Time it has before havign to manoeuever around) one of them will be dead, most probably the airspeeder.

1 hour ago, Big Easy said:

Anybody running two? I'm going to give it a try soon and let you know how it goes.

I've only tried 2 T-47's once and wasn't really sure what to do with them at the time. I've thought about trying it again now that Leia is out but haven't had a chance to play in a few weeks. I have been running a single T-47 with no upgrades at all in my recent games.

1 hour ago, Contrapulator said:

This is the part that rings most true to me. The airspeeder seems designed as an armor hunter, so it won't really shine in a trooper-dominated meta.

While it does seem designed as an armor hunter it is actually very effective at eliminating Troopers. The compulsory move then Aim+Shoot when you have flanked a unit in cover can be awesome. I've also had some success with it in hunting enemy Commanders, just have to watch out for Force users with a Dodge token...

All that being said, while I'm a huge fan of the idea of the T-47 and plan on taking one in every list I can, I can't really disagree with anything @Deuzerre said in his earlier breakdown. I'm hoping that as the game evolves the choices behind the T-47 design and cost become more apparent and it finds its place to shine.

4 hours ago, Big Easy said:

Anybody running two? I'm going to give it a try soon and let you know how it goes.

I've tried a few times, though with some borrowed ones since I haven't gotten around to getting my own as of yet and there's quite a few people building both sides and only playing one along with using a few borrowed bases with some of the WotC speeders set on them.

I've also kind of cobbled together a Commander Skywalker, Rogue Leader stats which would simply use another speeder for the mini and would let you swap a trooper slot for an extra T-47...it's in the thread for custom units...

2 hours ago, Shadows of the Future said:

I've tried a few times, though with some borrowed ones since I haven't gotten around to getting my own as of yet and there's quite a few people building both sides and only playing one along with using a few borrowed bases with some of the WotC speeders set on them.

I've also kind of cobbled together a Commander Skywalker, Rogue Leader stats which would simply use another speeder for the mini and would let you swap a trooper slot for an extra T-47...it's in the thread for custom units...

My list is with Leia and 5 bare rebel troops. Not expecting it to be my go-to but hoping it helps me fly the speeder and work on some strategic thinking and break out of trooper spam 100% of the time.

The T-47 forces the imperial player into a more defensive mindset - if the airspeeder activates last, it can force the imperials into more of a scramble among the troopers. It’s the threat if where it will be that’s quite dangerous.

I understand the point about costs etc., but it is the fastest moving rebel unit, comparable to bikes, which gives it plenty of utility. After all, you don’t need to kill everyone, just slow them down etc., so you can secure the objectives.

18 hours ago, Tvayumat said:

Except the player who just got disrupted is the one who places his figures, so why would he place them in your front OR rear arc?

The issue, in general, isn't that the T-47 is an unusable tool.

More accurately, the issue is that for the price, there are categorically better tools available.

In your example you are putting out a maximum of three suppression and a bit of damage, assuming a lot of placement works to your advantage. Why not just take 3 AT-RTs for the price? That's still 3 suppression and a lot more damage, all while NOT depending on fiddly placements.

Only the models landed on are displaced, so it's not too hard to position yourself with an arc on at least one trooper.

3 AT-RTs could put down 3 suppression, but only over 3 activations. More activations isn't always better than strong activations, though that's a separate topic.

Voltaire wrote something like "God is not on the side of the big battalions, but on the side of those who shoot best." Dancing the T47 around an enemy army is like fighting a star destroyer with a Nebulon B in that positioning is everything- the shooter, the target, the location. The points efficiency is pretty bad I'm finding that it's actually quite fun to use.

1 hour ago, Katarn said:

Only the models landed on are displaced, so it's not too hard to position yourself with an arc on at least one trooper.

3 AT-RTs could put down 3 suppression, but only over 3 activations. More activations isn't always better than strong activations, though that's a separate topic.

Voltaire wrote something like "God is not on the side of the big battalions, but on the side of those who shoot best." Dancing the T47 around an enemy army is like fighting a star destroyer with a Nebulon B in that positioning is everything- the shooter, the target, the location. The points efficiency is pretty bad I'm finding that it's actually quite fun to use.

That’s the important thing at the end of the day, these games are about fun and not necessarily all about the win all the time and the perfect build.

On 5/25/2018 at 10:16 PM, syrath said:

Repulsor vehicles don't provide cover only ground vehicles count for that.

I did not claim that repulsor vehicles provide cover.

I said that you can displace troopers that hide behind cover in a way that they do not benefit from cover anymore.

You can place the base of a T-47 behind a barricade so that troops cannot use that barricade anymore.

I think the repulsor vehicles should have hover. They would then lose cover. This could be easily implemented with a new upgrade card and points cost.

Hmmm. I can see Speeder Bikes having hover. I mean, we see them hovering. But I find it harder to see a T-47 hovering. Maybe a move 2 for compulsory and give up cover could work.

I think any single one of the following would be enough to put the T-47 in the 'usable' conversation:

- Cover 2

- Pierce 1 (this one might be a little too much)

- Surge to hit

- Some ability that allows it to use it's Cover 1 after impact crit conversions to cancel crits (You could call it Evasive 1 or something)

Right now it just doesn't get much use out of its Cover 1, unless it is being shot by a laser AT-RT. Offensively, it just feels kind of punch-less for how expensive and fragile it is.

You also don't get much use out of its Arsenal 2, since the shots can be difficult to line up unless you are in the middle of the enemy, which is exactly where you don't want to be. The hardpoint upgrades kind of just feel like throwing good points after bad.

T47 can hover. How would they fuel and arm it. Also shows them hovering in movie.

I've faced two naked T47s just recently, and they brought a lot of pain.

27 minutes ago, DerBaer said:

I've faced two naked T47s just recently, and they brought a lot of pain.

I just ran a dual-T-47 list in a couple of games. They are a little harder to fly but keeping them in formation allows for a lot of damage on a single target. The second game I played was against a "standard" Rebel list with 6x Troops (4 Rebel & 2 Fleet) with 3x Rotary AT-RTs and Leia. I have usually used my T-47 to hunt Commanders and flanking Trooper units but in this game my opponent had so many troopers that I actually wished I had taken the Ground Buzzer. It is the first time I've ever had rear-arc targets that I could have benefited from the Arsenal 2.

I will say T-47s seem to work better in mirror matches than against imperials. Rebels have much less natural impact weapons in their list. The primary rebel choice for impact seems to be the AT-RT laser cannon, and that’s one of the few weapons the T-47’s cover 1 actually provides any benefit against.

I was hoping the Air Speeders would move rapidly across the battlefield as seen in the movies. This could (only?) be accomplished by them having Compulsory X movement, where X is the number of full-speed moves they must perform, with Air Speeders having .... Compulsory 5ish!! They would also need a movement tool with less turn radius. Would have been cool seeing them make buzzing passes every turn, and making Standby more appealing to deal with them as they fly by. ?

1 hour ago, Orkimedes said:

I will say T-47s seem to work better in mirror matches than against imperials. Rebels have much less natural impact weapons in their list. The primary rebel choice for impact seems to be the AT-RT laser cannon, and that’s one of the few weapons the T-47’s cover 1 actually provides any benefit against.

The Empire can "easily" bring down a single T47. Bringing down 2 of em is nearly impossible.

By turn 2 with the "natural" imp list with dlts and bikes, you can easily bring one down, by turn 3 you can kill both if using veers (easy to bring down 3hp with maximum firepower and ss1).

And that's 350 points spent in vehicles that have less firepower than bikes, harder to manoeuvre around, less hp units.

And if the imperial brings snowtroopers with impact grenades, that's a nice chunk of the map that basically says "nope". Same with Vader and his sabre throws.

Vader tends to kill my T47 more than anything else. When hes in the middle of the table it can be difficult to get out of his reach and at the same time not be right in the middle of the entire imperial anti-armor stuff.
Its that pierce. T47 defense isnt the greatest but when its flatout negated it kinda hurts. The amount of times ive had vader bring it down to 1-2hp in one attack is sickening, and even no heavy weapon troopers can ping it for 1 damage to finish it off.

I find the T47 tends to behave much better on long table edges (i.e. deploy on the 3ft sides). Reason being, theres a big enough gap behind things to actually GET behind them and still move. Every game ive had my T47 actually work for me had that kind of setup going.

Imo its biggest problem is its just too easy for imps to pierce armor. I havnt used an ATRT in awhile either because seriously they just flop instantly every time for me.

Vader can't bring it down to 1-2hp in one attack; it's immune to melee

Yeah, Vader can do a maximum of 3 wounds in a single attack if because he has saber throw. Although most likely 1-2 wounds, unless he rolls 3 natural crits (remember cover happens before impact).

I've run the T-47 in my last several games and have had great success while taking minimal damage. Except 1 game where it was destroyed in the first activation of round 2. I made the mistake of taking it in the second game of the escalation league. A 3x3 table is not enough space to effectively control engagement distances. I love the T-47, but never take it on a 3x3 table ?!

A few things that have worked for me: hang back and begin the engagement on your terms (the first activation sometimes consists of a compulsory move and then nothing else). I've used my other units to cripple the major threats to the speeder before it gets there, if avoiding them outright is not an option. Engage or threaten with multiple units at once so that the enemy cannot focus fire the speeder without being punished in return. If there are no real threats (not likely), you can play a little more loose and send it out earlier to deal damage and suppression.

18 minutes ago, nashjaee said:

Yeah, Vader can do a maximum of 3 wounds in a single attack if because he has saber throw. Although most likely 1-2 wounds, unless he rolls 3 natural crits (remember cover happens before impact).

I've run the T-47 in my last several games and have had great success while taking minimal damage. Except 1 game where it was destroyed in the first activation of round 2. I made the mistake of taking it in the second game of the escalation league. A 3x3 table is not enough space to effectively control engagement distances. I love the T-47, but never take it on a 3x3 table ?!

A few things that have worked for me: hang back and begin the engagement on your terms (the first activation sometimes consists of a compulsory move and then nothing else). I've used my other units to cripple the major threats to the speeder before it gets there, if avoiding them outright is not an option. Engage or threaten with multiple units at once so that the enemy cannot focus fire the speeder without being punished in return. If there are no real threats (not likely), you can play a little more loose and send it out earlier to deal damage and suppression.

I've also discovered the simple joy of flying inside the minimum range of an HH12 launcher.

The white dice can still be problematic with potential critical hits but a squad is a lot less scary without impact 3

On 6/28/2018 at 1:03 PM, Vineheart01 said:

I find the T47 tends to behave much better on long table edges (i.e. deploy on the 3ft sides). Reason being, theres a big enough gap behind things to actually GET behind them and still move. Every game ive had my T47 actually work for me had that kind of setup going.

If you're on the long edges, you should be able to get the speeders into position for a long strafe run in the first turn with 3 moves. By Round 3 they should be raining fire on enemy units that have pushed forward a bit.

I feel like T-47's are great against other rebels, but are a ball and chain with how much Impact the Empire can bring without even trying too much. Veers + 6 DLT + 3x Bike brings 14 points of Impact to the table before grenades, and DLT's can engage your speeder from relative safety.

Running the single was a great high until I encountered this - then I realized the ultimate futility of trying to make it work. Two is still extremely risky, given what you'll run into and what you're giving up (Luke and RTs).

35 minutes ago, NoShieldsAllGuts said:

I feel like T-47's are great against other rebels, but are a ball and chain with how much Impact the Empire can bring without even trying too much. Veers + 6 DLT + 3x Bike brings 14 points of Impact to the table before grenades, and DLT's can engage your speeder from relative safety.

Running the single was a great high until I encountered this - then I realized the ultimate futility of trying to make it work. Two is still extremely risky, given what you'll run into and what you're giving up (Luke and RTs).

But you don't have to give up Luke! Here's the list I've been running for a bit (Luke, Leia, 2x fleets, 4x rebels, T-47). It's pretty fun and has been effective. I'm considering dropping the two extra fleet trooper minis to free up points for another Z-6.

http://tabletopadmiral.com/legion/rebel/p0buEMuEMuEMp04u0auEMuEMp0cu1fu23uEMuEMp0cu1fu23uEMuEMp06u10uEMuEMuEMp06u10uEMuEMuEMp06uEMuEMuEMuEMp06uEMuEMuEMuEMp0auEMuEMuEMc08c0bc0dc12c06c13c02