A couple of questions have come up in a local league about premeasuring range and movement. You can premeasure range at any time, but you cannot premeasure movement, so this has led to some players getting creative with the range rulers to effectively premeasure movement.

1- Can you only premeasure range from your own units or can you premeasure range from your opponent's units as well?

2- How many range rulers can you premeasure with at a time?

Some players have been using a combo of 1 and 2 to triangulate the spot they want to move their unit leader to, essentially premeasuring movement. Now, I don't care either way (premeasure allowed, not allowed, some combo), I just want to know what the rule is so it doesn't become an argument at a tournament and I can learn how to play SW Legion correctly. I hope these questions and the situation they represent are clear, if not I will endeavor to illuminate further.

Seems like you can do whatever you want with the range ruler, just not the movement tools. The RRG just specifies which tool you can use when, not what you have to use it for.

The whole system seems unnecessary. They had to know players would get creative with the range rulers rather than just make less informed gameplay decisions.

Triangulation? Facepalm.

In an effort to provide more illumination let me make people aware there is this section on page 37 of the RR:

"PREMEASURING
Players can measure with the range ruler at any time. Movement
tools can be placed against a unit’s leader and adjusted freely
only during that unit’s activation."

And there is this section under "RANGE" on the same page:

"To measure range, a player places the range ruler so its
beginning touches part of the base of the mini that range
is being measured from. Then, the player points the range
ruler toward the mini that range is being measured to; the
measured range is the range that corresponds to the segment
closest to the beginning of the ruler that a portion of the
base of the mini being measured to is in."

Of course neither of those statements says whether you can only measure from your own units, or from your opponents units as well. ("From" and "To" could be either your units or opponent's units as stated in those sections). So, players are measuring from opponent's units to a spot on the board like "I want to be in range of this unit, but not that one, so the exact spot for that using range rulers is here." Effectively using range rulers to triangulate their movement as a premeasurement before they move their units to said spot. You can adjust the movement stick all over the place however you want once you start moving, so why not just allow players to premeasure (or triangulate) movement to a spot to save time? I dunno... so murky in the rules. LOL....

I am fine with premeasuring because it does speed up the game, which seems to be the basis from which FFG has made other rulings ("Does it speed up the game?"). I am also fine if the rule (or ruling) goes the other direction too. I just want to know what the rule is clearly so I can learn to play correctly and so this doesn't generate an argument at a tournament.

It seems to me that they were just trying to cut down on slow play. Let them measure anything with the range ruler, but cut out sitting there all day while you work out who to move by putting the maneuver tool to each of your units. I see no reason to get uptight about someone using the range ruler to get any information they want, as long as they aren't taking forever to do it.

I don't have a philosophical problem with them using the movement tool to premeasure either but it's against RAW and that keeps me from having to check my watch if it takes too long, so it's a rule I'm happy to remind people of if it comes up.

3 hours ago, CrowOfPyke said:

2- How many range rulers can you premeasure with at a time?

Just to point it out, in Armada you can only use one tool at a time (which includes things like using your finger to mark a point on the mat), but that ruling specifically is in the tournament regs (that we don't have for legion yet).

It's the same in Runewars.

Premeasure anything anytime with the range ruler, movement templates only come out for actual moves.

It seems quite distinctly designed to prevent slow play and introduce the possibility of a player mistaking a distance. If you could use movement templates you could accurately plot out not just one move, but many moves in advance, this is much more difficult when using the range ruler, though it's still possible to accurately and quickly plot ONE movement out.

They definitely don't want players fiddling with 3-4 tools in succession bringing the game to a dead stop.

hmmmmmm.... I get it that SW Legion is not those other games, and they may bring out tournament rules later that are distinctly different from their rulings on other games, but it seems the general consensus is:

-One tool at a time (which includes things like using your finger to mark a point on the mat). Premeasure as much as you want, however you want. But once the movement tool hits the table you are committed to moving at that time.

Does that sound about right? Seems like this is how their other miniatures games work, I can't see them varying from that just for SW Legion.

31 minutes ago, CrowOfPyke said:

But once the movement tool hits the table you are committed to moving at that time.

This part is directly opposite of the rules on premeasuring that we do have in the RRG.

15 minutes ago, svelok said:

This part is directly opposite of the rules on premeasuring that we do have in the RRG.

Page 37 of the RR says this, as noted above as well:

"PREMEASURING
Players can measure with the range ruler at any time. Movement
tools can be placed against a unit’s leader and adjusted freely
only during that unit’s activation."

So you are saying that during a unit's activation you can place the movement tool on the base of the unit leader and adjust it freely without actually moving at that time? I assume you also mean that you do could do that and then pick up the tool and not move at all? Just trying to clarify what you mean, not casting judgment one way or the other.

Just now, CrowOfPyke said:

So you are saying that during a unit's activation you can place the movement tool on the base of the unit leader and adjust it freely without moving? I assume you also mean that you do could do that and then pick up the tool and not move at all? Just trying to clarify what you mean, not casting judgment one way or the other.

Yep

1 minute ago, svelok said:

Yep

Fair enough. Makes sense given how it would in fact speed play and dispel arguments before they begin. Is that how it works in Armada now?

Just now, CrowOfPyke said:

Fair enough. Makes sense given how it would in fact speed play and dispel arguments before they begin. Is that how it works in Armada now?

Well, you can't really compare, since moving in Armada isn't optional.

I have also seen folks pick up the range ruler, put a movement tool next to it, mark the spot on the range ruler with their finger, and then use it on the table to pre-measure the movement tool distance. This doesn’t seem expressly forbidden by RAW, but definitely feels against the spirit of the pre-measuring rule.

When you allow free use of a measure tool but restrict the other one, of course you are gonna get some math being done

3 hours ago, Orkimedes said:

I have also seen folks pick up the range ruler, put a movement tool next to it, mark the spot on the range ruler with their finger, and then use it on the table to pre-measure the movement tool distance. This doesn’t seem expressly forbidden by RAW, but definitely feels against the spirit of the pre-measuring rule.

Movement tools can be placed against a unit’s leader and adjusted freely only during that unit’s activation.

As this is the one and only rule currently regarding the movement tool, I'd say that this is the spirit of the rule.

You can measure of whatever you want, as long as it isn't a unit leader.

12 hours ago, Orkimedes said:

I have also seen folks pick up the range ruler, put a movement tool next to it, mark the spot on the range ruler with their finger, and then use it on the table to pre-measure the movement tool distance. This doesn’t seem expressly forbidden by RAW, but definitely feels against the spirit of the pre-measuring rule.

The official ruler has tick marks very close to each of the three ranges... I wager competitive players will memorize those. ?‍♀️

1 hour ago, CaptainRocket said:

The official ruler has tick marks very close to each of the three ranges... I wager competitive players will memorize those. ?‍♀️

Yeah, that I get... it’s just using your thumb as a marker feels one extra step of gamey.

Personally I think the premeasuring rules around being able to use one tool but not the other sort of invites this kind of abuse. I’d rather they just let you premeasure with whatever tool you want whenever you want, like it is in most other miniatures games, and eliminate this kind of weird grey area with the movement tools.

I've seen people paint their measurement tools. Would you (any of you - - not a specific you) object to a player literally marking the movement tool lengths on the range ruler?

2 hours ago, Albertese said:

I've seen people paint their measurement tools. Would you (any of you - - not a specific you) object to a player literally marking the movement tool lengths on the range ruler?

I wouldn't. As I said, I find it incoherent to leave the range ruler free of use but to limit the movement tool.

8 hours ago, Albertese said:

I've seen people paint their measurement tools. Would you (any of you - - not a specific you) object to a player literally marking the movement tool lengths on the range ruler?

Yes, as that shows what type of gamer his and you won't have a fun game.

For most troops, it's irrelevant. Move 2 trooper moves 6" per move (ie: 1 range band).

If Luke is in range two of you, he can charge you.

An issue came up that kind of has something to do with this.

My opponent played SoS and came up a few cm short of hitting anything. This left a bad taste in my mouth b/c wiffing a SoS is pretty much the game. We thought that once he took his first move, then measured for his second, saw that he would come up short, that he couldn't 'reset' the turn. Once he executed the first move, that action was irreversible.

Is this true?

Could you 'premeasure' two moves on your turn? If yes, could you use a proxy model to mark where the first move would end, so you could then measure the second move?

I guess I'm asking that once a model activates what can be done, other than using the range ruler, and use the movement tool for the first move, to 'plan out' the activation as much as possible.

On 5/26/2018 at 7:51 AM, colki said:

For most troops, it's irrelevant. Move 2 trooper moves 6" per move (ie: 1 range band).

If Luke is in range two of you, he can charge you.

It's actually just under range 1 per move 2. If you are at the very edge of range 2, you can shoot Luke and he can't charge you.