I am just curious about how big the deathwatch is. I understand that the average chapter is about 1,000 marines, but since the Deathwatch is a collection of marines from several chapters, is it still 1,000 or is it more? I understand that the Black Tempars were an example of a Marine formation which was larger than 1,000 (they managed to get it up to 5,000 on a technicality). Since we are on the topic, would the Grey Knights be the same size or would they be a "jumbo" chapter as well?

peterstepon said:

I'm not sure if there's any official numbers for the Deathwatch. I've never encountered any if there are. I would imagine they number roughly as many as the Grey Knights (which is approximately three thousand to answer your other question). That's pure speculation however.

And you should keep in mind the temporary nature of service with the Deathwatch which will lead to a rather fluid head count.

The Deathwatch use a unique sort of squads called Killteams, they are normal ten Marines strong. How many Marines actually serve in the Deathwatch is unknown to me, but I personal thing, they can be from several hundred to over thousand, when required.

In one of the Esienhorn books an Inquisitorial Task Force had half a million Imperial Guard plus 60 Deathwatch marines; in the 2nd Ultramarines novel there were elements from two chapters (the Ultramarines & Mortificers [?]) preparing a world to resist a Tyranid invasion plus a single Deathwatch killteam.

As the Deathwatch deploy as many marines as they think they need for the mission I can see them contacting allied chapters for more marines if the situation warrants it. So that would mean the total number of marines fluctuates depending on the missions underway.

DW

Atheosis said:

Thanks for the information. Where does it say that there are 3,000 Grey Knights? I am not disputing your number I am just curious where you learned this.

Speaking of Grey Knights, it would be great for Deathwatch to include rules (eventually if not in the core book) for playing Grey Knights. Players should represent all fighting arms of the Ordos. We already have the Sisters for Order Hereticus, soon we will have Deathwatch for Ordo Xenos. There should be an option for players to be a Grey Knight addition for an Ordo Malleus Inquisitor. Imagine how one Grey Knight attached to a Cabal could clean up Calixis sector of the Pilgrims of Hayte

peterstepon said:

It's on Lexicanum but it's not properly referenced so I'm not certain of its veracity. I think it comes from their codex though.

Approximately 3,000 sounds about right. They're not a Codex Chapter by a long shot; which is where the 1,000 strong really comes into play, a dictate of Guilliman's when he wrote the Codex Astartes.. The Deathwatch is highly specialized with a much larger field of operation than a chapter typically has, so the numbers sound about right to me. And that would probably be the Tactical/Assault/Devastator total. Like any chapter there will be an Armory, Apothecarion, Fleet Command, Librarius and Reclusiam. Chapter serfs loyal to the core ideals and not the contributing chapters; armor and fleet assets which are their own.

To think otherwise would seem foolishly naive about how the Inquisition would ensure their Chambers Militant were outfitted properly.

-=Brother Praetus=-

peterstepon said:

I'm wondering that as well; last I checked, the Grey Knights tended to number six hundred and sixty-six Battle Brothers.

I think something that a lot of people are forgetting is that the Deathwatch isn't really a Chapter - it has no common singular genetic tradition, no traditions for the recruitment and development of pre-Astartes recruits, it maintains no stockpiles of (nor does it pay a tithe of) geneseed, and from what we know, it has no centralised command structure (even dispersed Chapters like the Black Templars still answer to a Chapter Master) or common spiritual traditions either (which removes a need for Chaplains). Most importantly, it's membership consists of Marines who come from other Chapters, where even the Grey Knights create new Astartes

It's an organisation, certainly, but it's not a Chapter, given that it lacks essentially all of the defining traits and functions of an Astartes Chapter - ones that even wildly nonstandard Chapters like the Grey Knights, Space Wolves and Black Templars possess.

N0-1_H3r3 said:

I think you're getting confused by the fact the Grey Knights are the 666th Chapter, but I'm not certain about that.

As for Deathwatch numbers, there are supposed to be 1000 chapters or something, take away 100-300 due to turning to Chaos or being destroyed/lost (I can't remember the rough estimate given by most places you can read about the chapters), and that leaves somewhere between 700 and 1000 chapters where the Deathwatch can get members from.

Of course, not all of those chapters would send members, or have members within the Deathwatch at all times, but we can assume that most would have several Battle Brothers working for the Deathwatch at any one time. For the more well-known chapters, like the ones we'll see represented in Deathwatch RPG, would have several dozen as long as it meant not under-manning their current companies.

Add that all together and you have a lot of Deathwatch...

Kerrahn said:

I get the same feeling. The GK are not bound by the Codex Astartes and exactly what their numbers are is a bit unclear. I don´t remember having seen in any canon novel, codex etc. a definite number about their size. The 3K estimate mentioned in Lexicanum, as said, lacks citation.

As for DW, the numbers are in constant motion. A quiet sector with little or no Xenos activity might only have a few kill-teams active. The neighboring sector experiencing a sudden influx of Xenos activity ( or even a full scale invasion ) might have several dozen teams on active DW duty.

As for Deathwatch numbers, there are supposed to be 1000 chapters or something, take away 100-300 due to turning to Chaos or being destroyed/lost (I can't remember the rough estimate given by most places you can read about the chapters), and that leaves somewhere between 700 and 1000 chapters where the Deathwatch can get members from.

1000 chapters should be about right - complete chapter losses do get replaced now and then. That's one of the reasons the AdMech receives a tithe of gene-seed, after all.

Cifer said:

I thought that the gene-seed tithe was to the Adeptus Terra, not the Adeptus Mechanicus. Vaults of gene-seed, stored deep within the bowels of Terra. But, the point is the same no matter where it goes. It's there for the purpose of additional foundings as well as replacement lost chapters. And testing for corruption and deviance.

-=Brother Praetus=-