I'm four games away from finishing Hoth, and I'm struggling to see the utility of taking elites vs regulars in open groups. At threat level 5, with a few exceptions, they're not even on the board until round 3 or 4, and that's only if you hoard threat and don't reinforce much. Several of my games have been over by round 4!

Now, mission events can sometimes give a little threat boost, but using it to help deploy elites still seems expensive...It seems a smarter use of threat to reinforce any elites the mission setup gives you and fill in with regulars to gain a numerical advantage. Unless I'm missing something?

Side missions are a different story, where double threat and optional deployment makes it easy to throw down some elites and then keep them protected/reinforced.

Would love to hear others takes on this!

In the first missions (well, always) you want to deploy a group per round, so the best cost is usually Threat Level +-1. If the initial groups match that, then you can risk adding specialist groups (for example to go with your class deck or agenda cards).

When you get to threat level 4-5, it depends on the rebel abilities and items. If the heroes can (reliably) take down a regular in one attack but it takes two attacks to defeat an elite version, then probably the extra threat cost of the elite is justified, especially when the elites have a good ability.

Once the rebels one-shot 5/6-Health figures though, it's time to switch back to mostly regulars.

You also need to take into account that you want a lot of attacks against the white die, but big attacks work better against the black die.

In general, I agree that you don't want to overload your hand of open groups with a lot of expensive deployments. I usually try to keep the pressure on the Rebels by reinforcing and regularly deploying figures vs saving up a lot of threat which does make it more difficult to get expensive groups on the board. However, there are many times where it makes sense to bring a few elite open groups.

With a few Agenda cards, you can often have enough threat to deploy elites without hoarding threat. For example:

• For the Right Price - High Value Target: I have a hard time not taking this agenda set in any campaigns because this card is so good. Essentially you have double threat in the round that you wound a hero which makes it quite reasonable to deploy a 9-10 threat group.
• Agents of the Empire - Imperial Informants: Although you gain the threat at the end of the round, if you use this in round 1, you can have double the threat during the deploy/reinforce step in round 2.
• Lord Vader's Command - A Dark Power: I've actually never purchased this agenda card (due to the 2 influence cost) but it can be used when you deploy a group to reduce the cost by 5 - bringing the cost of most elite groups to less than that of the normal group.

It also varies depending on which elites you're talking about. For example:

• Elite Jet Troopers: with Fly By, +2 damage surge, better health to threat ratio - these guys are worth their 7 threat deployment cost. Also, it is common to have 7 threat if you have a carry-over from a previous round, gain threat during the round, etc. Which leads me to...
• Elite Jawa Scavanger: only 3 threat to deploy, so very cheap for an elite. But with Haggle, you can often gain additional threat (50% chance to gain 1 threat, only 1/6 chance to lose 1 threat). They also can do pretty good damage with Pierce 2 and +2 damage surge. Motivators also makes them superior to their regular counterpart.

There a number of other factors as well such as the Imperial Class deck you are playing, which Rebels you're facing, the specific campaign you're playing, etc. As with most questions, I think the answer to the question of "should I take any elite open groups?" is."it depends"

7 minutes ago, machfalcon said:

• Elite Jawa Scavanger: only 3 threat to deploy, so very cheap for an elite.

Preaching to the choir. In the right missions giving +1 Speed and +1 Accuracy to Droids is as great as the occasionally successful Haggle. And like you say, Jawa Scavenger packs a punch.

Jawa Scavenger replaced Dewback Rider as my favorite. If you can only afford the regular Jawa, you're better off with an Imperial Officer.

1 hour ago, a1bert said:

Jawa Scavenger replaced Dewback Rider as my favorite. If you can only afford the regular Jawa, you're better off with an Imperial Officer.

I can definitely see these as exceptions. I don't have access to those figures, but certainly an argument can be made for low-cost, high efficiency elites like dewback, Jawa, @machfalcon 's suggestion of jet troopers... maybe even infiltrators.

I was just looking at my own options of imperial officer, e-web, heavy Stormies, royal guards, HK's, AT-ST, repulser tank, Hired Guns, Trandoshans, Nexu... and thinking...Yuck. Elite probe droid a possible exception, especially with tech superiority deck.

1 hour ago, a1bert said:

In the first missions (well, always) you want to deploy a group per round, so the best cost is usually Threat Level +-1. If the initial groups match that, then you can risk adding specialist groups (for example to go with your class deck or agenda cards).

When you get to threat level 4-5, it depends on the rebel abilities and items. If the heroes can (reliably) take down a regular in one attack but it takes two attacks to defeat an elite version, then probably the extra threat cost of the elite is justified, especially when the elites have a good ability.

Once the rebels one-shot 5/6-Health figures though, it's time to switch back to mostly regulars.

You also need to take into account that you want a lot of attacks against the white die, but big attacks work better against the black die.

These are all excellent strategy tips for a newbie imperial!

1 hour ago, machfalcon said:

In general, I agree that you don't want to overload your hand of open groups with a lot of expensive deployments. I usually try to keep the pressure on the Rebels by reinforcing and regularly deploying figures vs saving up a lot of threat which does make it more difficult to get expensive groups on the board.

This ^^ My thinking exactly.

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However, there are many times where it makes sense to bring a few elite open groups.

With a few Agenda cards, you can often have enough threat to deploy elites without hoarding threat. For example:

• For the Right Price - High Value Target: I have a hard time not taking this agenda set in any campaigns because this card is so good. Essentially you have double threat in the round that you wound a hero which makes it quite reasonable to deploy a 9-10 threat group.
• Agents of the Empire - Imperial Informants: Although you gain the threat at the end of the round, if you use this in round 1, you can have double the threat during the deploy/reinforce step in round 2.
• Lord Vader's Command - A Dark Power: I've actually never purchased this agenda card (due to the 2 influence cost) but it can be used when you deploy a group to reduce the cost by 5 - bringing the cost of most elite groups to less than that of the normal group.

Excellent point. I have been getting a lot of mileage out of HVT (mostly to get high cost regulars on the board like HK's and Trandos), but I just picked up Imperial Informants! Probably will save it for the finale, but a triple bomb of HVT, informants plus a mission event granting threat would allow putting pretty much anything out there. I'm thinking cloaked Elite Trandos might break their spirit ?

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There a number of other factors as well such as the Imperial Class deck you are playing, which Rebels you're facing, the specific campaign you're playing, etc. As with most questions, I think the answer to the question of "should I take any elite open groups?" is."it depends"

Darn you and your reasonable, qualified arguments. I want absolutes! Lol

1 hour ago, TeethAlmighty said:

I want absolutes!

Oh wait, you're the Imperial so I guess that's ok

One thing to consider (and that @a1bert did touch on) is that as your Rebels get more powerful, an additional 1 or 2 health is unlikely to be worth the additional threat. Near the end of the campaign, almost all of your units are going to be glass.

So, you're gonna at least want them to be glass cannons.

That's why I like a new design philosophy that we're starting to see- additional attack dice for elite units, like with the clawdite.

We've seen similar stuff with stronger surge abilities in the past, too. Basically, don't think of it as buying extra health for yourself, but as in buying potentially extra damage against the Rebels.

2 hours ago, subtrendy2 said:

...Near the end of the campaign, almost all of your units are going to be glass.

So, you're gonna at least want them to be glass cannons...

Basically, don't think of it as buying extra health for yourself, but as in buying potentially extra damage against the Rebels.

Good point! Any elite units from Core and Hoth that you feel fit this bill (as in, the extra damage compensates for the extra threat)?

Perhaps if I was not facing a group including MHD the benefits would be more apparent...

8 minutes ago, TeethAlmighty said:

Good point! Any units from Core and Hoth that you feel fit this bill (as in, the extra damage compensates for the extra threat)?

Perhaps if I was not facing a group including MHD the benefits would be more apparent...

What class deck are you using and what heroes are you facing? I assume you're playing RTH?

I'm currently running Technological Superiority in a Return to Hoth campaign and I found Snowtroopers to be pretty solid. Good health to threat ratio and can easily Focus themselves with Experimental Arms. If you add in Cloaking Device, your Rebels will be in a tough spot because the Snowtroopers will be difficult to defeat but when Focused, they do really really good damage for a three threat figure (even moreso with Superior Augments).

30 minutes ago, machfalcon said:

What class deck are you using and what heroes are you facing? I assume you're playing RTH?

I'm currently running Technological Superiority in a Return to Hoth campaign and I found Snowtroopers to be pretty solid. Good health to threat ratio and can easily Focus themselves with Experimental Arms. If you add in Cloaking Device, your Rebels will be in a tough spot because the Snowtroopers will be difficult to defeat but when Focused, they do really really good damage for a three threat figure (even moreso with Superior Augments).

Same as you, TS and Hoth. Heros are MHD, Diala, Mak and Jyn.

Huh. Did not think about snowies! I usually put exp arms and Imperial Industry on my rHiredGuns, but MHD has made the stuns less effective. That's an interesting combo!

Still, 10 threat to get them out there...

Do you usually wait for High Value Target or a mission threat increase to deploy them?

Duplicate post

Just want to shout out Hired Guns. I bought them recently and just started using them. It’s an interesting dilemma for the rebels. They hate attacking them knowing they are going to get attacked back when they kill them.

Any IP should buy them, they are super annoying to the rebel players, thus fun for us!!

42 minutes ago, totalnoob said:

Just want to shout out Hired Guns. I bought them recently and just started using them. It’s an interesting dilemma for the rebels. They hate attacking them knowing they are going to get attacked back when they kill them.

Try using them with the Tech Superiority deck and experimental arms. You'll drive the rebs nuts!

Hired Guns don't have a very consistent attack though, so if you don't have any attack boosts you still need to think if some other group works better. At threat level 4 the regular Hired Guns are often better than Jet Troopers, but start to lose ground to other groups at higher threat levels.

R Hired Guns with experimental arms and arc blasters are some of the best units you can field. Even if the rebels ignore them they will eventually kill themselves for an extra attack. Imperial industry with experimental arms on them is devastating for the rebels as well.

With the tech superiority class, hired guns are some of my go to units. Granted I won't take them in an imperial only mission, but since it is jabba's realm, jabba seems to have equiped some of his hired guns to the teeth.

29 minutes ago, player1155101 said:

R Hired Guns with experimental arms and arc blasters are some of the best units you can field. Even if the rebels ignore them they will eventually kill themselves for an extra attack. Imperial industry with experimental arms on them is devastating for the rebels as well.

Do you prefer the arc blaster/exp arms combo over imperial industry/exp arms for hired guns? In that case, would you choose troopers for imperial industry? ?

2 hours ago, TeethAlmighty said:

Good point! Any elite units from Core and Hoth that you feel fit this bill (as in, the extra damage compensates for the extra threat)?

Perhaps if I was not facing a group including MHD the benefits would be more apparent...

If we're talking abilities, right off the bat, the officer's Executive Order can be well worth the additional 3 threat provided you have the right units on the board.

I think the E-Probe benefits quite a bit- the regular has surges for Pierce 1, +1 damage, and Recover 1. The elite has all of those abilities, but replaces all the 1s with 2s. A solid, clear upgrade.

Agreed with @machfalcon on snowtroopers. At 7, the regular version is already pretty expensive, and the ability to self focus can be a huge boon well worth an additional 3 threat in many cases.

Elite Trandos can be kinda iffy, but that +2 from scatter gun combined with an additional Pierce 2 from a surge can be pretty brutal.

The wampa is tricky. Its abilities are really nice, but you're going to rarely get to use them anyway. I'd say that you should always treat a wampa as if you're ignoring its surge abilities (so I wouldn't prioritize an elite).

54 minutes ago, TeethAlmighty said:

Do you prefer the arc blaster/exp arms combo over imperial industry/exp arms for hired guns? In that case, would you choose troopers for imperial industry? ?

It depends on the mission. If the hero’s will be forced to be close together, I like arc blasters, if they must spread spread out, I like imperial industry. Typically my opening deployment will have Hired Guns as close to the hero’s as possible with arc blasters. Troopers are usually my choice for imperial industry, especially if I have cloaking device. I have put in on a probe droid before to, but that was a unique situation that called for it.

36 minutes ago, player1155101 said:

It depends on the mission. If the hero’s will be forced to be close together, I like arc blasters, if they must spread spread out, I like imperial industry. Typically my opening deployment will have Hired Guns as close to the hero’s as possible with arc blasters. Troopers are usually my voice for imperial industry, especially if I have cloaking device. I have put in on a probe droid before to, but that was a unique situation that called for it.

Ah, good stuff. Until you've played a full campaign and had a chance to experiment, it's hard to know the best way to optimize sometimes

Arc Blasters is most useful as a way to strip focused if the heroes get focused a lot. Otherwise it's meh.

1 hour ago, subtrendy2 said:

If we're talking abilities, right off the bat, the officer's Executive Order can be well worth the additional 3 threat provided you have the right units on the board.

And provided he lives long enough! Lol

1 hour ago, subtrendy2 said:

I think the E-Probe benefits quite a bit- the regular has surges for Pierce 1, +1 damage, and Recover 1. The elite has all of those abilities, but replaces all the 1s with 2s. A solid, clear upgrade.

Yes, that's an elite I can get behind. Decent health, great damage, and don't forget the ability to reroll! With the TS deck, I'm always happy to have an elite PD around

1 hour ago, subtrendy2 said:

Agreed with @machfalcon on snowtroopers. At 7, the regular version is already pretty expensive, and the ability to self focus can be a huge boon well worth an additional 3 threat in many cases.

I think I'm coming around on these guys. My concern had been that they need to survive a round after attacking to benefit from the focus, but cloak just might do the trick...Mak can still possibly take out 2, but he'd have to roll extremely well.

1 hour ago, subtrendy2 said:

Elite Trandos can be kinda iffy, but that +2 from scatter gun combined with an additional Pierce 2 from a surge can be pretty brutal.

Don't forget +1 dmg from superior augments if I throw an attachment on them! +3 dmg plus a strain before they even roll the dice. ..

1 hour ago, subtrendy2 said:

The wampa is tricky. Its abilities are really nice, but you're going to rarely get to use them anyway. I'd say that you should always treat a wampa as if you're ignoring its surge abilities (so I wouldn't prioritize an elite).

I actually tried using exp arms on one in return to echo base, but unless the target is MHD, you still can't get the stun through on white die heros...

Excellent feedback, as always!

18 minutes ago, a1bert said:

Arc Blasters is most useful as a way to strip focused if the heroes get focused a lot. Otherwise it's meh.

Based on my current trajectory, I'll get them for the penultimate mission! All four heros have been getting a ridiculous amount of focus, so will be looking forward to setting them straight.

I was thinking elite, cloaked stormtroopers to carry them, but now I'm itching to try @machfalcon 's idea of cloaked, exp armed snowtroopers. How sturdy are the eStormies by endgame without cloak? ?