Firing Arcs Question

By KiraYamatoSF, in Rules

Lets say a t-47 is attacking a unit of troopers but only 2 of them are in my firing arc and another 2 are to the side(not in arc). Would only the two troopers take wounds or can they all take wounds from the attack?

They can all take wounds. As long as a single mini is in arc, the whole unit is considered in arc. From page 28:

Quote

If any part of a mini’s base is inside a firing arc, that mini’s
unit is inside that firing arc.
» If the attacker comprises multiple minis, a mini in the
attacker cannot contribute its fixed weapon to the attack
pool unless at least one mini of the defender is in it’s
firing arc.

Tangentially related: a mini outside of LOS, ignoring arcs, cannot be assigned wounds. So make sure you can in some way see the minis receiving wounds.

But it also says that if a miniature is not in line of sight (of any of the attackers) it cannot take wounds.

The passage you quoted does not cover the situation in the example

30 minutes ago, toffolone said:

But it also says that if a miniature is not in line of sight (of any of the attackers) it cannot take wounds.

The passage you quoted does not cover the situation in the example

How does it not cover it? LOS and firing arc have nothing to do with each other.

47 minutes ago, Thoras said:

How does it not cover it? LOS and firing arc have nothing to do with each other.

I guess they mean the quote doesn't specifically mention assigning wounds outside of arc. But since it does say the unit is in arc if one mini is in arc, I think it's clear they can get wounds out of arc. Do what the rules say, don't do what they don't say.

1 hour ago, toffolone said:

But it also says that if a miniature is not in line of sight (of any of the attackers) it cannot take wounds.

The passage you quoted does not cover the situation in the example

As @Thoras says, LOS and firing arcs are different things. You can have LOS without the defender being in your front arc.

Furthermore, we have an email clarification that verifies it works this way. Check out the email thread.

Well the email from game designer does not say so. HE only replied that a unit can be targetd even if only one of its model is in arc. HE didn't reply on the assiignation of wounds to models out of arc.

And the fact that you can shoot to a unit does not mean you can kill models out of your arc.

As said: do what the rules say. Not what you think they say.

The rules are clear on assigning wounds. To impose a new rule that isn't there because of firing arc just because a similar rule exists for LoS would be making a new rule. Whether that was the intent is of course debatable.

Edited by Big Easy

4. If a trooper is in the front arc of an AT-ST, but the rest of the squad is out of arc, can the AT-ST attack the unit? Or would wounds only be dealt to the mini in arc?

answer: YES

These were the original question and the original answer. Now please point were you read that wounds can be allocated to miniatures our of arc. YOu can shoot to the unit because you see part of it. But surely you cannot shoot to models you cannot see.

Rules are indeed clear on assigning wounds:

Unit leader can never be assigned wounds unless he is the only model in LOS or he is the only wounded model

if line of sight to a defender's miniature is blocked for all of attacker's models then that (defender's) miniature cannot be allocated wounds

SO is being out of ARC like being on a blocked LOS?

That's the only point that needs to be discussed.

11 minutes ago, toffolone said:

4. If a trooper is in the front arc of an AT-ST, but the rest of the squad is out of arc, can the AT-ST attack the unit? Or would wounds only be dealt to the mini in arc?

answer: YES

This Q&A is, unfortunately, confusing because there were 2 questions and Alex gave a 1-word answer.

13 minutes ago, toffolone said:

SO is being out of ARC like being on a blocked LOS?

That's the only point that needs to be discussed.

No, being out of arc is not like being out of LOS. These are 2 different rules. If you think being out of arc means being out of LOS, please quote the passage that says so.

Honestly, this is the most clarifying passage (which I already quoted):

Quote

If any part of a mini’s base is inside a firing arc, that mini’s
unit is inside that firing arc.

So the ENTIRE unit is considered to be inside the arc.

In theory this should fall into the same concept as range. If you’re using a range 1-2 weapon and only 1 mini(out of 4) is in range 2, that whole unit is considered in range 2 and you can wound all of them. Feels like in/out of arc would fall into this same logic.

Edited by Jacen007
2 hours ago, toffolone said:

4. If a trooper is in the front arc of an AT-ST, but the rest of the squad is out of arc, can the AT-ST attack the unit? Or would wounds only be dealt to the mini in arc?

answer: YES

These were the original question and the original answer. Now please point were you read that wounds can be allocated to miniatures our of arc.

Where did you read that they can't? I'm not trying to be combative, I'm just trying to reduce this to what we know and don't know. We have no reason based on RAW to think that wounds can't be assigned out of arc. Yes, we could have an argument about why they shouldn't be, and we CERTAINLY have an argument that it should be addressed specifically. But as it stands, wounds go out of arc because there's nothing saying they wouldn't in the section about how to assign wounds.

Edited by Big Easy

In answer to what you want to know being out of firing arc is not equal to being out of line of sight. Your mini can see the other mini by looking over the immediate top of any the attacking mini's if one mini can see it, it can be assigned wounds.

Firing arcs and range determine if you can target the unit , and this only requires one miniature in the unit to have the target in it's firing arc. Range however, is a bit wierder as it's taken from the unit's leader mini to the nearest mini in the targeted unit, which could result in a weapon being illegal for the attack, like a unit having just 1 figure at 3 range of a n AT ST would mean the unit cannot be attacked by a mortar attack, although I'd still worry about the other 2 or 3 weapons.

Edit just to clarify even though range is measured to the nearest mini in the defender's unit strangely I don't think you need line of sight to the nearest mini, is someone knows otherwise can you reference where this is stipulated.

Edited by syrath