Vader can move, be displaced, perform melee attacks, range attacks and be targeted by ranged attack because he is not engaged by the AT_RT. Same with the AT-RT? Correct?

The rule state that:

Quote

While a trooper unit is in a melee with another trooper unit,

those units are engaged. A unit that is engaged cannot perform

moves, cannot be displaced, cannot perform ranged attacks, and

cannot be targeted by ranged attacks.

Trooper units can be only engaged with other trooper units.

Trooper units cannot be engaged with vehicles, and vehicles

cannot be engaged with other vehicles, even if both units are

in a melee.

Thanks

There is another Passus in the RRG on page 14.

» During a ranged attack, the attacker and defender are not in a melee, and the attacker can use only weapons that have a blue range icon.

Even when they are not engaged, they cannot do ranged attacks when they are in melee.

The question that came up was Vader couldn't attack the AT-RT in base contact because they weren't engaged because he read this part.

Quote

Trooper units can be only engaged with other trooper units.

Trooper units cannot be engaged with vehicles, and vehicles

cannot be engaged with other vehicles, even if both units are

in a melee.

But it states they are in melee so Vader should be able to Attack.

9 minutes ago, bswaim said:

The question that came up was Vader couldn't attack the AT-RT in base contact because they weren't engaged because he read this part.

But it states they are in melee so Vader should be able to Attack.

Vader can indeed melee attack the AT-RT. From page 32:

Quote

Melee represents close combat between opposing units. When
two miniatures from opposing players’ units are in base contact,
those units are in a melee.

[...]

• When a unit performs an attack against a unit that it is in a melee with, that attack is a melee attack. Melee attacks follow the same rules as ranged attacks with the following exceptions:
  • The attacker can use only weapons that have the melee (?) icon.
  • The target of the attack must be in the same melee as the attacker.

"Engagement" is an additional layer on top of "melee". An engaged unit is always in a melee, but being in a melee does not necessarily mean you are engaged. Being in a melee with the defender is the only requirement to use a melee weapon.

Regarding @Tokra 's point, I'm not so sure the AT-RT can't perform ranged attacks. I think there is an implied "with each other" in that line. As in: "During a ranged attack, the attacker and defender are not in a melee [ with each other] , [...]". I've already submitted a rules query to FFG, so we'll see.

1 hour ago, Tokra said:

There is another Passus in the RRG on page 14.

Even when they are not engaged, they cannot do ranged attacks when they are in melee.

That is wrong. You cannot do a ranged attack on someone engaged or in melee (vader in base contact with AT RT cannot be shot at by the AT RT) but the AT RT can do a ranged attack against something else.

Since the ATRT is in melee but not engaged, he would not have to withdraw to move. So just move in reverse up to speed 1 and then shoot. That is if he wanted to shoot Vader, or any unit in melee with it.

Melee is an attack type, when two units have miniatures who are in base contact with each other, any unit that has a melee weapon can enter melee (base to base contact). RRG P. 32 - Melee.

Engaged, is a state the a unit is placed in when both units involved in the melee are trooper units . RRG P. 26 - Engaged.

in the OPs example the two units are in melee (base to base contact), however because the AT-RT is not a trooper, they are not engaged. Therefore both are free to move, be displaced or be designated targets of ranged attacks.

I thought Vader should be able to attack also. Light saber, Hello! This was a discussion at a table next to me last night at game night. The guys running Vader didn't think he could attack because of the engaged condition.

8 minutes ago, bswaim said:

I thought Vader should be able to attack also. Light saber, Hello! This was a discussion at a table next to me last night at game night. The guys running Vader didn't think he could attack because of the engaged condition.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, lol.

47 minutes ago, Kalandros said:

That is wrong. You cannot do a ranged attack on someone engaged or in melee (vader in base contact with AT RT cannot be shot at by the AT RT) but the AT RT can do a ranged attack against something else.

Maybe i wrote it wrong. They cannot do ranged attack against each other (missed it earlier).
Vader and an AT-RT are in Melee, but not engaged. A unit that is in melee cannot do a ranged attacks against a target they are in melee with. Means Vader and the AT-ST cannot do ranged attacks against each other.

Only engaged unit cannot be attacked by ranged attacks. This means Vader and the AT-ST can be the target of ranged attacks (they are not engaged).

• If two trooper units are in a melee, those units are engaged. Any unit type can be in a melee, but only troopers can be engaged.

When two units are in melee, they cannot do ranged attacks against each other. But yes, they can do a ranged attack on someone else (unless they are engaged).